I want to dive into the Israel-Palestine section of the book. It's the largest section of the book. And I have to say, when I when I read the book, I imagine if I took your name out of it, took away the awards and the acclaim, took the cover off the book, the publishing house goes away. The content of that section would not be out of place [00:00:17] in the backpack of an extremist. I have a. Very, very, very, very moral compass about this. And again, perhaps it's because of my ancestry. Either apartheid is right or it's wrong. Is calling an author who is critical of Israel's treatment of Palestinians, [00:00:34] an extremist, the type of behavior a journalist should engage in? That's what CBS news wanted to look into. Following backlash over how co-host Tony Dokoupil treated Ta-Nehisi Coates during that exchange. And before we get to what their internal review found [00:00:52] and you want to stick around for it. It's amazing. I do want to just give you a little bit more of how this exchange went down. Let's take a look. If you were to read this book, you would be left wondering why does any of Israel exist? What a horrific place committing horrific acts on a daily basis. [00:01:09] So I think the question is central and key. If if Israel has a right to exist, and if your answer is no, then I guess the question becomes, why do the Palestinians have a right to exist? Why do 20 different Muslim countries? My answer is that no country in this world establishes its ability to exist [00:01:26] through rights. Countries establish their ability to exist through force, as America did. And so I think this question of right to Israel does exist. It's a fact. The question of its right is not a question that I would be faced with with any other country. So there was a lot of backlash, I'm happy to say, in regard to how [00:01:46] Dokoupil was treating Ta-Nehisi Coates. And so CBS decides to do this internal review, and what they found was kind of amazing, CBS news leadership said. An internal review found that a controversial interview conducted by morning show host Tony Dokoupil with the writer Ta-Nehisi Coates, [00:02:05] did not meet its editorial standards, which I'm going to be honest, that actually shocked me. Well, I agree that it doesn't meet editorial standards, like if you want to do journalism, it is clear that there was a pretty significant bias with the host. [00:02:21] But for a major network to admit this is a big deal, especially when it comes to, you know, this particular topic. They further, they had more to say. A network insider told media site that the interview prompted [00:02:38] several CBS news journalists to voice their concerns internally that Dokoupil showed inappropriate bias. But not everyone agreed with that take. I'm going to give you some more internal statements in just a moment. But before I do, Jake. Thoughts? [00:02:53] Okay. I'm going to start in a funny way here. Thank God Tony Coates is black and that he's a famous author and really well liked within the establishment because otherwise none of this would have happened. So if I was in that same exact situation, no one would have stood up for me. [00:03:11] And of course you guys would have. But no one at CBS would have stood up for me. No one in mainstream media would have stood up for me. Why? One, I'm not liked by the people in the establishment. As an outsider, you get no special privileges. [00:03:26] In fact, you get the opposite. You're assumed to be a radical that should be attacked. And if you're not attacked, people go, why didn't you attack him? He doesn't even have any power. And he's saying something that we all find unacceptable. Number two, I'm of a muslim background, so it's okay to call Muslims [00:03:42] anti-Semitic 24 over seven whenever they criticize Israel. I've never seen anyone object to that. And in fact, it's done so regularly that you it's just you. I whenever I go on a show, I that's the very first thing I expect is the question, [00:03:58] do you, you know, support Hamas and Hezbollah and, you know, and basically they're intimating are you a terrorist? And then when I say, no, I don't support those groups, but I'm deeply concerned about what Israel is doing. They immediately then say, are you an anti-Semite? Or they say, or they'll literally call me an anti-Semite, etc. [00:04:16] Because if you're a muslim, you have no privileges at all. So it's a funny day in America when a black guy's got more privileges than anyone does. So that's a step up in a way that's kind of wonderful for equality. But it's super ironic because obviously it's because Muslims are [00:04:34] now the very bottom and and so but more important than any of that is the fact that he has a name. That's why if you notice, Tony Dokoupil said at the beginning, if I take the name off of your book. Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. - That is a good point, because. - That's a strange thing to say, right? He would never say to me, if I take your name off of your book, because they would [00:04:52] think, no, the book matches the name. This is a guy we're, the insiders have no respect for, so we can say anything we want about him and call him a terrorist loving anti-Semite. But when you do it to someone that has allies in the building, then you're in a little bit of trouble. [00:05:08] And that's what happened to Tony Dokoupil. But it is a wonderful sea. Change never happened in my life before where someone who's enormously biased in favor of Israel in mainstream media, which was in my lifetime until this conflict was, I would say, [00:05:25] and they can catch feelings about this all they like and they could show show me the examples, because in my experience, it was about 100% of the anchors on television would do exactly what Tony Dokoupil did, and they would be rewarded for it and feted for it, not punished. So the fact that they're saying this doesn't meet editorial standards, [00:05:42] that is shocking. So I agree with you in regard to, I guess, the immunity idol that Ta-Nehisi Coates has, not just in regard to his race, but also in regard to how well-liked and [00:05:58] accepted he is within the establishment. And I said this the first time we covered the story. I'm going to say it again. He will forever have my support for what he's doing and what he did in that conversation, because it's not just about the message, it's the way in which he relayed [00:06:14] that message to the American people. It was coming from a place of justice, morality. Right. And so I want to go to what I believe was the most powerful part of what he had to say, because guys, messaging is super important. [00:06:30] And what he says here is very, very powerful. Let's watch. What is it that so particularly offends you about the existence of a Jewish state that is a Jewish safe place, and not any of the other states out there? There's nothing that offends me about a Jewish state. [00:06:46] I am offended by the idea of states built on ethnocracy, no matter where they are. - Muslim. - Included. I would not want a state where any group of people laid down their citizenship rights based on ethnicity. The country of Israel is a state in which half the population [00:07:01] exists on one tier of citizenship, and everybody else that's ruled by Israelis exists on another tier, including Palestinian Israeli citizens. The only people that exist on that first tier are Israeli Jews. Why do we support that? Why is that okay? I'm the child of Jim Crow. [00:07:18] I'm the child of people that were born into a country where that was exactly the case of American apartheid. I walk over there and I walk through the occupied territories, and I walk down the street in Hebron, and a guy says to me, I can't walk down the street unless I profess my religion. [00:07:34] So the reason why I found that so powerful is because he he personalizes it, and he helps Americans who are obviously aware of the injustices of Jim Crow. Helps them understand what is happening on the ground in Israel, how the Palestinian [00:07:51] people have been treated like second class citizens, and even worse than that. And so while I really appreciate that CBS news did this, this internal review, and they found overall that it didn't pass editorial muster, unfortunately, not everyone was on board with that message, [00:08:09] including this is the worrying part. CBS news chief Wendy McCormack Mahoney and her top deputy, Adrian Rourke. So I don't even understand how Tony's interview failed to meet our editorial standards, she said, according to PwC's Dylan Byers. [00:08:28] She argued that Dokoupil appropriately challenged Coates one sided worldview. - So that's. - Insanity. But don't you see? That's what I'm talking about, guys. But in mainstream media, that's not insanity. Those those people that are saying, what the hell is going on? [00:08:43] Why does this, not our editorial standards? I understand why they're so puzzled, because they're like, this is what we've been doing on the air for the last 50 years. And but in their worldview, they think, I mean, Ta-Nehisi Coates is so one sided. [00:08:59] He cares about both Israeli and Palestinian lives. You're only supposed to care about Israeli lives. Okay. I mean, Tony Dokoupil said in the middle there, why do Palestinians why do. He said, why do Palestinians have a right to exist? [00:09:14] And but those people running the news department there, they're like, I don't get it. Of course, that makes sense. That's totally our editorial standards. Why did the Palestinians even have a right to exist? They shouldn't be existing. Israel, on the other hand, is the most important country there is. [00:09:31] And they have all infinite right to exist, and no one else that is opposed to them has any right to exist. So it's just a disgusting, one sided view of the world that I've seen in mainstream media my entire life. Look, last things from the interview that you saw there with your own eyes [00:09:46] and heard with your ears, he said. So this sounds like an extremist position. So you think the Palestinians also having a state that isn't coats is not saying, oh no, the Israelis shouldn't exist. He never said any of that. So you're saying it's an extremist point of view for the Palestinians [00:10:05] to have the same thing as the Israelis? Gee, I wonder if you're bias. I can't quite tell. And if you notice every question. Why are you saying only a Jewish state shouldn't exist, but all the other states are fine? He didn't say. All the other states are fine. You imagine that in your mind because you genuinely believe that anyone [00:10:24] who would criticize Israel is an anti-Semite, so you assume he criticized. Oh, obviously this guy is an anti-Semite, so why do you not say it about? And he's like, of course I say it about the Muslim states. And he seemed like shocked by that because he assumes, oh, you must hate all Jews. Oh, you apply the same standards of Muslims. [00:10:41] That's so weird, because in his mind, he never applies the same standards. Israel is allowed to do everything. Muslims are allowed to do nothing. They're not even allowed to exist. And that's why half the building is shocked now. Like, what the hell? Now we got to be unbiased. That doesn't make any sense to them. Last thing I'll say. [00:10:59] Nicest comments I get is when people say, hey, you know what? I love that you guys stuck up for us when you're not part of our tribe, our identity. So, for example, African Americans, when they come up and they say, man, you know, it's so good to see someone who's not black, who's fighting for us [00:11:18] just as hard as anyone is. Right? And so, you know, when Benjamin Crump said on the show that the Trayvon Martin story wouldn't have become a national story if it wasn't for The Young Turks, that gives me life and LGBTQ folks saying that over and over again through all these [00:11:35] years, so many different people saying, thank you for fighting for us, even though you're not us. Right. So I want to give that same compliment to Ta-Nehisi Coates. We appreciate you, brother. You you got credibility through your hard work and your great writing, [00:11:51] and then you use that credibility for the right things and to do what's moral and standing up for people that aren't from your background. And I can't thank you enough for that. Thanks for watching The Young Turks. Really appreciate it. Another way to show support is through YouTube memberships. You'll get to interact with us more. There's live chat emojis, badges. [00:12:10] You've got emojis of me Anna John Jr. So those are super fun. But you also get playback of our exclusive member only shows and specials right after they air. So all of that, all you got to do is click that join button right underneath the video. [00:12:25] Thank you.