Okay, so you left the Democratic Party. So I remember when she said it. Oh, that's it, I'm an independent. I was like, I was really curious. Okay. Because I love independence. What is what made you an independent? They were mean to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. That's your reason. [00:00:15] Now that you are speaking for yourself, do you have any regrets at all for anything that you said while you were speaking on behalf of this administration? I'm look. It's just it's a it's a simple yes or no. You don't even. Know. No, no, because you're asking for a yes or no question. I want to put some context to it too. I woke up every day. [00:00:33] I woke up every day very proud to be the white House press secretary. I woke up every day as a as a black woman who is queer, who had never no one had ever seen someone like me at that podium standing behind that lectern. [00:00:49] It was an honor and a privilege to have that job. Former white House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre book launch Landed with a thud. John. Book. Independent. A Look Inside a Broken white House outside the Party Lines, [00:01:07] released on Tuesday, October 21st, to less than stellar reviews. Now we'll get to what people are saying in a second. But her white House pivot her post white House pivot has been to leave the Democratic Party and establish herself as an independent, [00:01:24] which is an interesting personal branding exercise for someone who spent the last few years defending everything the president did. More confusingly, her publicity tour for this book on her independence doesn't seem to involve any direct criticism of Joe Biden, namely Joe Biden's stance on Gaza. [00:01:45] Take a look. I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about foreign policy. You didn't mention Afghanistan. You haven't mentioned Gaza, and you certainly didn't mention Gaza much in your book. I wanted to get your thoughts that you stood at the white House podium Speaking on behalf of the administration, you defended U.S. [00:02:00] Policy in Gaza at a time when there were mass civilian casualties, journalists being killed, whole families being wiped out, hospitals being bombed, and the international community was calling it what it was at the time, saying it was a violation. It was war crimes. And you defended the administration's policy. When you look back at that moment. [00:02:17] Do you regret any of the positions that you advocated for on behalf of the administration, the positions you take? Do you feel that you were complicit in advocating a narrative that turned out to be wrong? No, I appreciate the question, because one thing that I really want [00:02:34] to make clear is that I was speaking on behalf of the president. That is the job of the white House press secretary. I'm not speaking for Karine Jean-Pierre. I'm speaking for Joe Biden. That's every white House press secretary. That is their job. Well, you said, now you speak for yourself. So. Hold on, hold on. Wait. [00:02:50] Let me finish. No, no, no, I just want to. Because we're almost out of time. I just want go ahead. Go ahead. I'm going to get to it. Obviously. What's what is happening is heartbreaking. If she's unwilling to directly criticize Biden over foreign policy [00:03:07] while speaking for herself, what? Why is she leaving the party now? Becca Rothfeld of The Washington Post, in her review of Corrine Jean-pierre's book, summarized it perfectly. Imagine parting ways with the Democratic Party, [00:03:22] not because of its unwavering support of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as he violated international law and waged a bloody campaign against civilians in Gaza, not because of its humiliating failure to mount meaningful opposition to the Trump administration's assault on just about everything of value in the country, [00:03:41] not because it continues to run candidates in their 70s and 80s, one of whom opted to die in office at 90 rather than cede her seat to someone younger not because of its inability to expand access to healthcare, or protect immigrants, or tax the wealthy, or really get anything done at all. [00:04:01] Not because of its politely non-committal effect and rhetoric of facile uplift, or its members tendency to address the public as if they are delivering the keynote keynote at a corporate retreat, not because the Democrats have no political vision, [00:04:16] something of a liability for a political party, but rather because of the single, sensible, if very belated thing they have done in recent memory, which was to usher a doddering Joe Biden out of the 2024 presidential race. [00:04:31] And that's her issue here. It's that they pushed Joe Biden out. And perhaps the most damning press hit from her press tour came today in the form of a Q&A from The New Yorker's Isaac Chotiner, who is the absolute best at this. [00:04:48] In response to Jean-Pierre lamenting this coordinated campaign within the Democratic Party to oust Biden from the ticket? Chotiner asks. Sure. But why were they doing that? She replied. Because they believed he needed to step aside. [00:05:04] There's more to this than just that period of time. This is very layered, right? There's a period of time that I questioned what was happening and how do we treat our own. How do we treat people who are decent people? And then you also have to think about how I'm thinking about this as a black woman who is part of the LGBTQ community and living in this time, [00:05:22] where I also don't think Democrats right now, Democrats leadership is protecting vulnerable people in the way it should. And Chotiner says, sorry, I'm not trying to be dense. I'm a little unclear about what this has to do with Democratic leaders and many Democrats in this country thinking that Joe Biden [00:05:40] was going to lose to Donald Trump, which was what the polls all showed, and therefore thinking that he should be replaced. She replies, okay, wait a minute. Hold on a second. Nobody knows anything. Nobody knows what would have happened. People also thought that if you replaced Joe Biden, we were going to win [00:05:56] or have a better chance of winning. Millions of people who showed up in 2020 didn't show up in 2024. We can't forget that there was an incumbency issue as well. This is real. There are like several G10 countries with incumbents who did not get reelected. There was an incumbency issue as well. [00:06:13] John replies, I'm not sure what you're saying. Then later in the conversation, Jean-Pierre tried to make the case that polling has been wrong in prior elections and that polling showing Trump ahead couldn't be relied on. [00:06:28] He says the polling was pretty accurate in 2020, 2022. But go on. Well, okay. But remember it was reported that there would be a red wave. You're right. There was a lot of talk of a red wave. She says, so there was no red wave. He was an incumbent and he was the only person to have beaten Donald Trump. [00:06:48] Those were the things that were true and in front of him and he was being encouraged by Democrats and leadership to run. So you have no concern, even to this day, that Joe Biden could serve as president through January 2029, he asks. She says. I did not see anything that would have given me concern. [00:07:05] And Shatner says. But you watched TV like the rest of us, right? Jenk I can't wrap my head around what the core premise of this book is and why people should believe it. Because on the one hand, she's saying we need to be independent. We need to make our own choices. And I don't fit in either party. [00:07:23] But at the same time, she's saying that Joe Biden should have continued and stayed in the race. He would have been perfect, and there's nothing at all whatsoever that she saw that would have dissuaded her from that point. What do you make of it? Yeah, I think she's vacuous. To be honest. [00:07:38] I don't think she has any idea what she's talking about. She just keeps going back to the same old talking points. I'm a black woman. I'm queer. So what? So I'm allowed. That's it. You got to listen to me. I'm a black woman. I'm queer. What does that have anything to do with what the hell we're talking about? [00:07:54] Okay, I'm a muslim, man. That's it. You have to listen to me. Why? Why? There's tons of millions of Muslim men who make no sense. Well, I don't know why you keep saying that. What's. Okay, so you left the Democratic Party. So I remember when she said it. No. That's it. [00:08:09] I'm an independent. I was like, I was really curious. Okay? Because I love independents. What is what made you an independent? They were mean to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. That's your reason. That's your reason. And you're going to rally people around that. [00:08:24] Oh, I want to start a third party independents who thought that the people in power were just too mean to Joe Biden. They should have covered up his dementia for much longer. And they should have, just like we did with Feinstein. Just roll him around in a wheelchair and go, this is how he votes. [00:08:39] Shut up. I'm a black queer woman. I'm telling you how he votes. Shut up. Don't question me. That's your premise for an independent case, Okay? Please. Look, Becca Rothfeld that you quoted earlier, I can't believe they allowed this in the Washington Post. It must be a new day. Anyway, brilliant, scathing article about the book. [00:08:57] I'm going to read you two more quotes because I love it so much, she wrote. Calls for an open primary were an insult to Harris. Jean-Pierre exclaims. Never mind whether the vice president's coronation was an insult to voters who might have preferred to be consulted. [00:09:14] Thank you Becca. Exactly right. Okay. So she's like, oh, they insulted Kamala Harris. Do they not know she's the most important qualification? She checks off both women and black and oh, wait a minute. And Asian I wonder she won the gender identity I mean racial identity prize. [00:09:34] That's it. We win. That's not how it works, sister. It's just not so. Last one here, because I could quote the entire thing for you. Check it out. Becca Rothfeld at Washington Post. Great job. Jean-pierre's true concern. Her only real subject is Democrats lack of decorum. [00:09:51] Instead of endeavoring to convince us that Harris was the best presidential candidate because of her platform or her popularity. Jean-pierre's gestures meekly at demographics and invokes tired dynastic norms. Harris was Biden's logical successor, and she was clearly next in line [00:10:08] and, quote, bypassing her would have been disrespectful to black women overall. Never mind the rather central question of whether she was actually electable. Thank you, Becca Rothfeld. Exactly right. And Karine Jean-Pierre shows no interest in whether Biden and Harris are electable. [00:10:27] All she cares about is black woman, black woman. Be respected, powerful Democrat. Democratic leader. Bow! Everybody bow! No, we didn't bow. Karine. We didn't bow. And if that makes you want to be an independent and be the only person in your political category, the one person obsessed with you. [00:10:47] Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's feelings. Have at it, Hoss. Try to start a movement around it, but leave the rest of us alone. This is garbage. This is. I mean, it makes no sense at all. So look, guys, the reason why I obsessed about the all that, you know, [00:11:05] identity politics garbage is because that is what is lost. Democrats elections time and time again, not because they defend Muslims like me or transgender people, or black people or women or queer people. No, that would be a winning strategy. When we say we represent all Americans and we serve all Americans equally, no. [00:11:25] Karine, Jean-Pierre and some of the most corrupted Democrats don't say that. They say our identity should win. I'm a queer black woman, so who cares about the Palestinians? Yeah, we murdered the Palestinians. Yeah, Joe Biden did that. I love Biden, you're being impolite to Biden. [00:11:40] Yeah, that led to the massacre of 70,000 Palestinians At a bare minimum, 20,000 of their kids were killed because we funded it. But who cares about the stupid Palestinians? I win on identity politics because I'm black, I'm a woman and I'm queer. [00:11:56] And you must listen to me. That's not how it works. And the last thing that Becca Rothfeld said, that was so on point. Yes, but you're supposed to actually deliver for those categories of people, not just say, because I'm in one of those categories or multiple of those [00:12:13] categories, I don't have to do anything. I don't have to deliver for black people, queer people, women. I don't have to deliver for anyone. And Biden didn't and Kamala didn't. But you're being impolite by questioning our leadership. You should bow your head. Yeah. No, absolutely no one is going to do that. [00:12:31] So go and enjoy this nonpolitical movement of someone who is so obsessed with themselves and their beloved bosses. The three of you can go have a party somewhere. Kamala Harris says she's going to run again. Come on. [00:12:46] Can't wait to see you in the primary. No, no, no more Mr. Nice guy. Okay, you run on that garbage and and you'll find out. Okay. And you know what? Good news you can have Karine Jean-Pierre as your communications director. She'll be amazing at it. She'll do nothing but kiss your ass and not care about the actual Democratic [00:13:04] voters, American voters, American citizens, Palestinians or anyone else. Okay, lastly, Ana Kasparian, my co-host, is going to be on CNN tonight. They're going to discuss the same thing. What is the state of the Democratic Party? One of the other panelists is going to be Neera Tanden, [00:13:21] establishment 101, Washington, DC figure. So that could be explosive. I don't know how it's going to go. CNN tonight at 10:00 eastern. I don't often tell you to watch CNN, but versus an establishment Democrat, that could be interesting. [00:13:38] I just want to add one piece of context from what you were saying. She routinely, in interviews and publicity events for this book, has pointed to her identity. And look, to be clear, and I don't think anyone's interpreting this way. [00:13:57] We have no problem. We we we celebrate more diversity, more inclusion, the further advancement of people who are in underrepresented or marginalized groups in this country. I think we're all on board with that. What we don't like is the cynical deployment of that in spaces [00:14:17] or conversations that are rooted in different substantive policy issues. And what was so interesting in that Shatner interview in The New Yorker was the cynical deployment of her identity. On seven different occasions, he was asking her questions about things [00:14:37] she wrote or things she claimed, or the maneuvering of the Democrats to oust Biden from the ticket because they knew it was going to be bad and lead to Trump's reelection. And on seven different occasions, she talked about her experience. [00:14:55] No, like, I understand you have a different life and a different background, but in no way does that shape a national conversation on who should be the president. And she did it in the MSNBC interview. She continues to try to bring this up when we are talking about something [00:15:13] that is rooted in millions of voters perspectives and polling data that showed that Biden was not the guy. So on the one hand, yes, we want a more inclusive society. On the other hand, I reject the cynical deployment of identity politics in these conversations. [00:15:32] Exactly. Every time you ring the bell below, an angel gets his wings. Totally not true. 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