As someone who's always like Douglas and known him for a while, my first instinct was why he just destroyed his career like he's done. I don't think Douglas Murray destroyed his career. - I think he destroyed his reputation. - Sam Harris has a meditation app. I didn't even know that. So by day, he's a he's a meditation guru and by night he's encouraging, [00:00:18] like carpet bombing of children. I mean, I spent my whole life in cable news, you know, obviously is in terminal decline. I had all kinds of views that I argued for passionately that were totally wrong. I admitted it, I gained perspective and humility, humility in admitting it. [00:00:34] Ben Shapiro built a career opposing identity politics as a proud Zionist. Libertarian comedian Dave Smith sat down with Tucker Carlson [00:00:50] for a very lengthy dunk session on all our favorite characters in the right wing or pro-Israel universe, and I love to see it. This was one of the more fascinating conversations that Tucker Carlson has had on his podcast, and it was wide ranging in regard to who they decided to dunk on. [00:01:10] So before we get to the details, Cenk thoughts? Yeah. So look, everybody comes in with preconceived notions. Please stop. Right. The political spectrum is jumbled now. And so you find allies where you find wherever you can find them. And so in this case, yes, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson [00:01:28] are allies in stopping the war with Iran. If you say no, it I would rather remain pure. And so I, I feel great about myself, but our chances of stopping the war are reduced because we didn't work together. But I feel morally pure. Then you're being selfish. [00:01:46] Right. And so we're not selfish here. So we're willing to say, yeah, Tucker Carlson is doing a good job on this, not on other things on this. Dave Smith, by the way, I for a guy that intelligent, I can't believe some of his other opinions. Okay. But on this he's gold. [00:02:03] He is. He's really good on the. - Best in the business on. - This I totally agree. Right. And he triggers right wing Israel supporters like you wouldn't believe. He triggers them like crazy. And he's going to explain why in some of the snippets I show you. Yeah. Look, I have the quickest explanation. [00:02:20] Dave Smith drives them crazy because he's Jewish. Okay. And so they it takes away their main weapon. You can't you can't call him an anti-Semite. But anyways, you're going to see that in some of the things that are coming up here. It's an amazing interview. All right. [00:02:35] So let's start with the exchange on, the topic of Douglas Murray. As someone who's always like Douglas, and known him for a while, my first instinct was why he just destroyed his career like he's done. [00:02:50] No smart person will ever take Douglas seriously again. And I don't I don't know if he felt that way, but it was clear by a day or two after he realized he destroyed his career. And in response, rather than admitting that and admitting what he'd done wrong, he attacked you really kind of doubled down in the New York Post. [00:03:05] I want to read this. The whole column is an attack on you. And I'm quoting claiming some Jewish ancestry. Smith has spent the last 18 months, since October 7th being very unfunny indeed, claiming some Jewish ancestry. [00:03:22] Now, I'm not really sure. Well, I'm just going to. I don't know why that just. Oh. Well. So what do you claim? Some Jewish ancestry? I, my mom and dad are probably the big ones. [00:03:38] I mean. Yeah, and I don't know what Douglas Murray is, but I know that he, you know, is obviously on the side of Israel. And so there are two tricks that they always go to. The well on is the minute you criticize Israel half a percent anti-Semite, right. [00:03:55] And you know it. And so when they can't use it on Dave Smith or Glenn Greenwald or Bernie Sanders or. ET cetera, et cetera, they get super frustrating. - Exactly. - You're taking away our one trick pony. No pony come back. Right. [00:04:11] And so it goes. On and on. And also, that's why it's the greatest. And they're going to get into Steve Witkoff. Right. And who they're most mad at now. He's also Jewish. Also drives them nuts. And in fact they're going to get into the core of that in a second. And, and but that also goes to show you it is not a Jewish thing. [00:04:29] Okay. So don't go down that dark path of, oh, the Jews, this, that and the other thing. No, Jewish Americans are our best fighters for peace, right? So thank God for them. So there's a difference between somebody who's just Jewish and someone who's Israel first. [00:04:44] There's a difference between me who is Turkish and proud. Right. That that's my ethnicity originally. But I love America, and I'm an American citizen. And I am America way before Turkey, like a billion miles before Turkey. Because I'm an American, right? [00:04:59] And that's how Dave Smith is, and that's how Steve Witkoff is. And I love that. But there are people who would be. Yeah, in the category of no, my homeland in their mind before America. Well then, brother, I mean, you're in the wrong place. Then go to that place. If Douglas Murray has no interest in actually addressing the substance of [00:05:17] the arguments that Dave Smith is making, or anyone who's being critical of the current Israeli government, the points they're making, then maybe he should just shut up. Okay, I'm not interested in hearing him, like, lob out all sorts of ridiculous false allegations of anti-Semitism or lack of expertise. [00:05:39] Either address the substance of the arguments that Dave Smith is making or shut up. But that's the thing. He totally thought he could just use the same tricks that have been used for decades against anyone who raises concern over the conduct [00:05:56] of the Israeli government and the IDF. And so he didn't get away with it this time because Dave Smith, yes, he's Jewish, but more importantly, he's well-read. He knows what he's talking about, and he's making substantive arguments that Murray has no real response to. [00:06:12] Now, why is Murray so gung ho in defending Israel at all costs, regardless of what the IDF is doing, regardless of how many children die in Gaza? Well, look, I don't know if I necessarily agree with this, but I think that the theory that you're about to hear from Dave Smith is interesting. [00:06:31] Take a look. She started bringing Liz Cheney out to campaign events and campaigning with Liz Cheney. Now, if you were just looking at this on paper, you'd go, okay, what demographic of voters is this for? [00:06:49] And you'd very quickly realize that that demographic doesn't exist? No. Are the leftists they still remember her last name as Cheney. And then on the other side, I mean, she lost by like 50 points in her congressional run. I mean, she's it's not like you're bringing Republicans in. [00:07:04] And so I think the only thing you could conclude is that, oh, this isn't actually for the voters. There's somebody else who Kamala Harris is talking to here. Of course, there's a power source that may be a little concerned about her, and she's trying to let them know. Don't worry, I'm good for business. I've got Liz Cheney right here. [00:07:24] That's kind of my assumption. It seemed to me with the Douglas Murray thing, he wasn't playing in the audience. He certainly wasn't trying to persuade Joe. No, he perhaps was talking to a different audience, which will make sure that his career is just fine going forward. [00:07:42] Essentially saying that Douglas Murray is a shill, a paid shill. If he if he had said that in the past and he wasn't Jewish, it wouldn't be just Douglas Murray's of the world. It would be all of mainstream media who would say, [00:07:59] But wait, is he getting paid or isn't he? That's a good question, right? Are politicians getting paid by AIPAC or. No, that's not a good question. That's clear. They are definitely getting paid by AIPAC. Isn't it amazing that great reporters, you know, they got their hand, they got [00:08:14] the pencil behind their ear and golly gee, I'm a I'm a national media reporter. And you couldn't figure out that Apacs the largest donor to politicians in this cycle, and that politicians might care about the campaign contributions like that. You just couldn't piece that one together. [00:08:30] Here, let me help. - Come on. - Let me help them out. Apex Political Action Committee and its super PAC, which is known as the United Democracy United Democracy Project. That's cute. Spent nearly $126.9 million combined [00:08:45] during the 2023 and 2024 election cycle. And that's according to filings with the FEC. That includes more than $55.2 million in donations given to federal candidates. Let's take a gander over at the Democratic side where, Oh, wow. [00:09:03] House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries has received close to $1 million from AIPAC. And today he was loudly complaining about the plane from Qatar. And that's normal. That's fine. And then he had to add in Qatar, which is allied with Iran and Hamas, leaving [00:09:20] out the fact that Central Command has U.S. Central Command has a base in Qatar. They're an actual ally, not because we invented a thing called special ally, where that special ally takes $300 billion from us, make us fight their wars, and it gives nothing back to us. [00:09:36] Qatar actually gives us things back. So. But Hakeem Jeffries. No, no. I'm sorry. It's probably a coincidence that he got $1 million from, the Israeli lobby and then is constantly telling everybody how great Israel is and how all their enemies are super evil, [00:09:52] and that we have to kill all of them and give all of our money to Israel. And oh, look at that. The Republicans do the same thing, Ted Cruz, same thing today. Right? So but the second trick that they developed over the years now was this expertise, one that animation. Right, right. And so this was personal for me because I debated Douglas Murray on Piers Morgan. [00:10:11] Now, like nearly a year ago. Right. And what did he do? He said, oh, you've never been there. You can go back and watch it. Okay. - It's online. - Yeah. Look for someone who's been there. He's really having a tough time responding to the substantive arguments [00:10:27] that Dave Smith is making. So if being there on a on an Israeli government led junket. Okay. Gives you more expertise than you should be, you know, equipped with the arguments [00:10:43] necessary to totally dismantle Dave Smith. Instead, he failed to do that and resorted to ridiculous, like ad hominem attacks. And so in the debate that I had with him, he had no facts, nothing. Everything was always like, oh, it's Hamas. [00:10:59] Hamas? Hamas. I don't trust Hamas. His numbers. And you wouldn't know because you haven't been there. And you know what? Back then, though, before he was exposed by Rogan and the others and Dave Smith, you look at the comments comment section and it's amazing how people fall for propaganda. So there's tons of people, I don't know if they're Israeli bots [00:11:16] or real people who are like, oh, being there is the only thing that matters if you've never actually gone to Gaza, where Israel, by the way, would murder you. It doesn't count, it doesn't count, it doesn't count. And he's a real expert. But understand the core of that trick. They claim that only the pro-Israeli people are experts, and [00:11:33] that people who criticize Israel, they're all no good amateurs and not experts. So you should never have them on. You should only have the pro-Israeli people on. But Douglas, are you an expert? He's an English major. He has no expertise at all. [00:11:49] His he went and spent 18 months with his boyfriend in Israel, and every once in a while, the IDF would take him on a press junket. That's not expertise. That's actually worse. That means you're in the tank for them, that they hired you to do propaganda for them. [00:12:05] That's exactly right. And by the way, I mean, look, we asked the question about Douglas Murray's identity, you know. Is he Jewish himself? - I don't care at all. - It doesn't matter. It really doesn't. But for those who are curious, he did grow up Christian, [00:12:21] but he now identifies as an atheist. Weird. There's like a weird collection of self-described atheists who seem to really hate Muslims and also have this weird attachment to Israel. No, it's not just. [00:12:36] And I had a three hour debate with Sam Harris about this, right? And you could go back and check that out on YouTube. And it's I'm atheist. I don't mind that they're atheists at all, but there are specific kind of atheist where they say, now, of course all of religion is nonsense. [00:12:51] There's no invisible God. It's absurd. None of it is true at all. But the Muslims are worse. The Muslims are the worst of all the religions. Wait, if none of it is true? And that's again, you'll see it in the debate that I had with him or the discussion I had with him. I'm like, they all have a if you're an atheist, you think they all [00:13:09] have a 0% chance of being true. Not hey, you know, I got a problem with some of the religions, but Islam is the really the problem. No, that's just you being a weirdo Israel supporter having nothing to do with atheism. Right. [00:13:24] So Sam Harris, Douglas Murray, Bill Maher all pretend to be very principled atheists. And by definition, you're not principled if you say one of the religions is worse. And so it's a preposterous claim. But oh, look at that. Golly gee, they all happen to be enormous supporters of Israel. [00:13:41] And of course, they all claim expertise. And anyone who doesn't support Israel has no expertise. It doesn't matter. So these are super tired propaganda tricks. So it's they're being exposed to everyone now. And guys, the reason why this interview is even more important is a lot [00:13:56] of us on the left already know this. But for the right wing and for those who were saying a year ago when I debated Douglas Murray, he's been there now they're all making fun of Douglas Murray. Now they're all making fun of Sam Harris. And the right wing used to support those guys, right? [00:14:13] Now the right wing has exposed them. Now we're getting convergence against the establishment. And in this case, the establishment is pro-Israel and wants to ban us, wants to make sure that we're never allowed to talk. But that monopoly has been broken now. [00:14:28] And so now people are all saying it at once. And so when does it get to the politicians? And look, it's on all of us. If a politician is taking AIPAC money as a general rule, you should vote against them. That's not that complicated because they don't work for this government. [00:14:44] They work for another government. And you apply that to Turkey, you apply that to Russia, you apply that to any government you like. If they have American Russians for Russia. No, no, you don't take money from them. Okay. It's not that complicated. So, anyway, great job by Dave Smith. [00:15:02] And and it's a beautiful new day in America, and we're allowed to say things that are true and not get universally canceled for it. Every time you ring the bell below, an angel gets its wings. Totally not true, but it does keep you updated on our live shows.