The government in protecting national security. I think at this point we can all recognize they don't really have our security in their sights. You know what I'm saying? They let they'll let anybody they don't want somebody getting your [00:00:16] information off TikTok, but they'll let somebody just come across the, willy nilly come into the country. I believe that they don't want people sharing the truth about the genocide in Palestine, and that's why that they're doing it. [00:00:31] I believe that that's what it is. And TikTok is one of those places where people can still do that. And, they want to own it. They want to own it. Dude. That is comedian and podcaster Theo Vaughn, with his theory as to why the US [00:00:49] is trying to ban TikTok. I don't agree with or really understand the theory, to be honest. Nor as you may not be surprised, do I agree that it is a genocide in the war going on between Israel and Hamas. But more details to come. [00:01:07] I know, Jake, you certainly have a take on this, so I'd love your thoughts first. Yeah, I totally agree with you, Yvonne. So I don't know if the left wing is going to hate me for agreeing with a guy who's largely agreeing with the left wing, but and I don't really know much about their politics. [00:01:22] I think you know him a lot better than I. I've been friends for 20 years. Came up together in comedy. That's interesting. We'll talk about that too. But as we get into it here, I'm going to show you some videos that back up what Theo van is saying about TikTok. Okay. Fair enough. [00:01:37] Let's actually take a look at those videos right now, because earlier this year, Mitt Romney said outright that Israel was a factor in why the US government has moved to ban TikTok. Take a look at this. Some wonder why there was such overwhelming support for us to shut down, [00:01:54] potentially TikTok or other entities of that nature. If you look at the postings on TikTok and the number of mentions of Palestinians relative to other social media sites. It's overwhelmingly so among TikTok, broadcasts. [00:02:09] So I'd, I'd note that's of real interest. And the president will get the chance to to make action in that regard. Typically the Israelis are good at PR. What's happened here? How have they how have they. And we been so ineffective at communicating. [00:02:25] The, the realities there and our point of view. So, Ben and he's just flat out mentioning that one of the reasons for TikTok they're concerned about TikTok is the issue of PR for Israel. And that's a stunning thing for a senator to say. [00:02:41] Let me show you one more and then we'll discuss. Okay, so. He's speculating though. But please. Yeah. And that's of course, what Secretary of State Antony Blinken. So here's Brian Kilmeade so that you realize it's not an aberration. This is something that people talk about, apparently, enough that they just say it on TV and say it at these conferences. [00:02:57] Brian Kilmeade from Fox News also mentioning that. Most young people are getting their news from TikTok. They have a great algorithm. They have a great business plan. But try to find some pro-Israel stories on the timeline on the news feed for TikTok. Now, if the tariffs go against China, you watch. [00:03:14] Slowly but surely, a lot of the pro tariff talk will take a lower profile to the pro tariff, to the anti-tariff talk, because it goes to China. Do you want China controlling the number one news feed for the next generation of Americans? Yeah, but that tariff stuff didn't happen. [00:03:31] And so it's, he's got a different theory, which is a trippy one where he thinks China is anti-Israel. I don't know that China cares, but. And that that's why they're promoting the anti-Israel stuff [00:03:46] and not promoting the pro-Israel stuff. So, Ben, look, overall point, the one that Mitt Romney made best there, unfortunately, is, yeah, I've seen the same thing. I've seen everybody's seen the same thing. Tons of videos about Gaza and the catastrophe that's happened there. [00:04:02] ET cetera. Not a lot of pro-Israel videos because there aren't a lot of pro-Israel videos. I mean, there's plenty like that go from the IDF, etc., but it's not. I've never seen, in fact, the only thing I've seen in my experience, and this is not determinative at all, it's just one little data point, [00:04:18] is that whenever I use a hashtag about Israel, they actually seem to be suppressing that which is which actually leans towards protecting Israel. Because if you use it, a lot more people are using the hashtags that are against Israel. So, and I thought it was amazing that that Mitt Romney said, [00:04:36] hey, this is partly about Israel. And so I think that that's a concern of theirs. I think Theo Von's right. Yeah. But I mean, I think both of those points that you just made counter-argued your own point. I think if they're intentionally suppressing pro-Israel hashtags, that's evidence of the opposite. [00:04:52] No, no, no. Let me be clear about that. Sorry. Any hashtags about Israel or peace for Palestine and I this was a while back for for a stretch when I was using it more about a year ago. So, and there was a lot more criticism of Israel with those hashtags. [00:05:07] So it seemed like the hashtags were suppressed. But again, it's just anecdotal for sure. And then, you know, God forgive me for this sentence, but I think Brian Kilmeade is right. I think he's more right in that statement that China would care more about things that affect China more than it does. Maybe whatever their interests may or may not be in the Israel-Gaza war. [00:05:25] And that's the big concern that I think makes much more logical sense about why you would be wanting TikTok not to be available in America when it is a Chinese owned company. And they even are giving us a totally different version of TikTok in the US than they give in China, and one that is obviously going [00:05:42] to tilt towards Chinese interests. We have a guy coming in to the presidency that's pretty aggressively and bullishly anti-China, right? So there's a lot of confusing things in there. So let's sort it out one by one. First of all, on the China angle, then we'll dispense with that. Is that yeah. Trump was worried about China and that's why he was trying to ban TikTok. [00:06:01] Is ostensibly why in the first term that he had, now he's flipped on that. That has nothing to do with Israel. It has also nothing to do with China. It's Jeff Yass, who owns 15% of TikTok, who gave millions of dollars to Donald Trump's campaign. [00:06:16] And then Trump came out and said, you know, hey, I got a strong endorsement. - We're going pro TikTok and. - Said that out loud. - Pretty much, yeah. - That was just transactional. Period, right. And so that was that was clear. Now back to Israel. I want to be clear about that. I don't think my point is that I don't think TikTok is doing anything other than [00:06:34] maybe even tilting the scales in favor of, well, let's not let these hashtags get out of control, because we're taking a lot of heat from the mainstream media about this. But even if you put that aside, put aside that theory because it's so anecdotal. Overall, I think what's happening in TikTok is, yeah, there's a ton more videos [00:06:50] criticizing Israel, and that's from real people. It's not an agenda of TikTok, it's just what it is. But when people like Mitt Romney see it, they go, well, I don't like that. That's criticizing our ally in a, you know, if you want to put it in a positive light, right. It's criticizing Israel. I don't want it. [00:07:05] I don't want it. So I want to shut it down because and and this goes towards it happens to be about Israel. But overall the bigger theme is that corporate politicians, whether they're Republicans or Democrats, whether they're Romney on, on the Republican side [00:07:20] or Blinken on the Democratic side, are used to controlling the media. And so that's why he says Israel's pretty good with PR, right? Yeah. Again, it's about Israel. But overall. Which they are not they're horrible at PR. Well, well, we could argue about that too. But certainly they haven't been great lately. And so and they're frustrated that they [00:07:39] can't stop people from putting out videos. So they hate that. And they're like, no, no, no, bottle it back up. Bottle it. That's why Jen Psaki right after the election, was like, we got to do something about social media. There has to be a law against social media because they're used to controlling mainstream media. [00:07:54] Super easy to get your message out again. It's actually 95% about corporate issues. This happens to be about Israel. But you see the point there that regular people are putting out all these videos, and it's frustrating the people in power because they can't stop it like they used to be able to. [00:08:09] Well, but I don't agree. I mean, we would need to see data, but I don't agree that there are so many more videos on one side on that side of the war than the other. There's plenty in my algorithms that are on both sides and plenty that are on the pro-Israel side, especially on Instagram. [00:08:25] I'm not on TikTok as much, but they're just being suppressed overall to the general public more so. So that does go maybe more to the leadership and ownership of these companies. I think the larger, larger issue is that, you know, Theo, who I've known forever, he's a great guy. He's a hilarious guy. [00:08:41] I don't think he would claim to be any sort of political expert. You know, he had Bassem Youssef on his podcast a few months ago. And Bassem said, you know, Anthony Blinken in Boston goes, who's that? And he goes, Secretary of State. And he goes for Israel. And Boston's like, no, for America. I mean, some of the basic facts aren't really there. [00:08:58] And so his opinion as to whether something is a genocide or not. I don't think carries a ton of weight. He's brand new to learning about these things and thus far from what I've seen, has only had guests on that are on that side of the issue. And so you're going to have a very skewed perspective if you're learning about it [00:09:13] in real time on your podcast. And to that larger question, you know, I don't understand. I still don't understand the great enthusiasm to call a defensive war, as horrible and tragic as it has been a genocide, [00:09:30] when all that does is it's a highly debated term, I think it's ridiculous to use it. It's not at all accurate, but beyond that, it also just engenders so much hatred and anti-Semitism. And, you know, it's also leading to people being just fast and loose [00:09:47] with accusations towards the Jewish people in general, even though, again, great guy, buddy of mine. But, you know, went on Joe Rogan the other day and is saying that the Jews control the media and control left wing media and all these things. And so yeah, that's. So look to me and we're going to talk about Candace Owens later in the show. [00:10:03] More to that point, right. But to me, the water's edge is super clear. Don't ever make it about religion. You make it about a religion. It's the wrong way to go because it's a power dynamic, right? And so if the religions were reversed or the ethnicities were reversed, you'd get the same exact result. [00:10:18] And I know for a lot of Palestinians or Muslims, they'd be like super offended to hear that. No way. But guys, we're all human. We're the same creature, right? So when someone has absolute power, they abuse it, as I think Israel is abusing it. Right? And so they were the victims of abuse before, throughout history, etc.. [00:10:34] But don't make it about it's about the governments. It's about the governments. Once you get it into the religions, you've lost the thread right there. We totally agree. Yeah, there. We totally agree. But and I've criticized Netanyahu countless times on this show, and I think some of the ways he's conducted this war have been very irresponsible and horrible. [00:10:52] And, and there's arguments to be made that he's, in some ways extending this thing for his own political survival, his own personal survival. But that said, I just I would love to hear you address the larger question I asked, because, you know, it is still a defensive war. [00:11:08] It's not one that Israel asked for. It was one that was brought upon them. And I don't know of a lot of genocides that are happening when people when a nation is attacked and continuously attacked and continuously still gets missiles and rockets and on the ground terrorist attacks constantly. [00:11:24] Nor do I know a lot of genocides where the Genociding country is doing a mass vaccination campaign for the children of Gaza, of hundreds of thousands of vaccinations for children and women in Gaza, or a genocide where the trend of. [00:11:39] As the war's objectives have been achieved more and more, the death toll thankfully has reduced and reduced and reduced and has changed in trajectory greatly. You can just look at the graph of it. It went like this, and then it's leveling out and has been much slower, which is a wonderful thing, but it certainly doesn't speak to a genocide. [00:11:56] So Ben, you and I have brawled over this before. I'll just make my point and I want to get back to TikTok, because I think that's the more pertinent part of what Theo said there. So look, sir, I think it's an obvious genocide. Obvious ethnic cleansing, obvious terrorism. [00:12:12] I don't think they're defending themselves at all anymore. I think the attack was, what, now, 14 months ago? They're still missiles. 15 months and terrorist attacks. All the Hamas leaders are dead. All the Hezbollah leaders are dead. They're just wiping out northern Gaza. It's textbook ethnic cleansing. [00:12:28] And when you get to the word genocide, it doesn't mean holocaust, where you try to kill every single person in the in that rate. It means attacking in part or in whole based on ethnicity. That is clearly what's happening here. And there's no legitimate targets left in northern Gaza. And to this day, they bomb and bomb and bomb. [00:12:45] They killed five journalists the other day and they said, yeah, it turns out, yeah, they were journalists. And yeah, we did know they were journalists, but they were doing combat propaganda. In other words. Yeah, we murdered them because we didn't like what they were saying. That's textbook terrorism. So look, at this point I think. [00:13:04] I mean, you got to they're doing maximum damage to Israel by getting the whole world to loathe them. They're doing, unfortunately, maximum damage to to Jews across the world. And and I'm and I'm super worried about it. Right. I've got family and friends going to Europe. [00:13:22] ET cetera. You saw what happened in Europe a couple of months ago. So they've got to stop. No one like Ben. I know you believe it with all your heart, but I swear to you, no one else in the world believes it. Everyone believes no one else. That Israel is definitely the aggressor. [00:13:38] They're definitely Goliath, and they're definitely crushing those Palestinians right in front of our eyes. That's why these guys are super nervous about TikTok. They're like, don't let people see it. Because if people see what's happening in Gaza, they'll hate us forever. They're the Goliath. If you ignore the fact that Hamas is working for Iran, which is a Goliath, [00:13:56] if you ignore that fact, if you ignore the the still fact that nobody, yourself included, is putting most of the pressure or any of the pressure really, on the people who can stop this instantly, which is Hamas, to release the hostages and lay down their weapons, which, if we really wanted an end to this instead of public showboating of it, [00:14:13] that would be the way to do it. Right? And also, how is it an ethnic cleansing again, or a genocide, or even an apartheid, when within Israel, the Palestinian Arabs are treated with full rights and are equal members of society? It proves the exact opposite. [00:14:29] It proves that it is not based at all on ethnicity. It is based on the territory that is still promising to annihilate the Jews and get rid of them from Earth, and then the West is next. Except Israel is actually literally annihilating the Palestinians. [00:14:45] It's not theoretical and it's not hypothetical. Let me just address those super quick. And we got to get back to TikTok real quick. So look, these are I read up on I did a debate on international law on this topic at UCLA. So I read up even more so on the genocides that I've read about before. [00:15:00] Serbaneasa you say you know the vaccine? Well, we're doing the vaccinations in Srebrenica. They gave food to the people that they to the civilians that they were slaughtering because they said one, it will make us look better if we give them two and two, it will be easier to kill them when they come to get the food. So yes, you could ostensibly do some things that are positive while you're [00:15:19] actually committing horrible acts, right? Well, they didn't. Kill people that they didn't kill children that went and got the vaccinations that they were offering to them. No, they. Didn't kill the children that got the vaccinations, but they did kill the people who were going to get the food and the flour massacre. And in many other instances in terms of, well, we didn't kill everybody. [00:15:35] That's Palestinian same excuse my people used in the Armenian Genocide. Well, we didn't kill the Armenians on the western side of Turkey, so. Well, obviously it must not have been justified. No, that's a holocaust. It could still be a genocide because you clearly targeted the Armenians, on the East. [00:15:50] And and you move them just like Israel did while saying, hey, we I had to move them, right? They were attacking us. And the Armenian rebels were attacking the Ottoman Empire. Right. But that didn't give you. And the Armenians did hide within the civilians, but that didn't give you a good enough reason to commit genocide against them. [00:16:07] But it also. Remains to be seen, and I would agree with you, it would. It would fit ethnic cleansing if they are not allowed to return to the north, and thus far they haven't been fully allowed to return to the north, but that remains to be seen. This war is still. Can I just. Say last two things on this that so if they are never allowed, if Netanyahu etc. [00:16:23] Says no, that's it. They're not allowed to return to the North and we're taking the north, would you then come out and say, yes, it was ethnic cleansing and genocide all along. I'm not talking about genocide in this sentence. And I would agree with you by the definition of ethnic cleansing, it would be ethnic cleansing at that point. Okay, good. That's that's good. I appreciate you being reasonable about that. [00:16:39] And then lastly, what's your take on this TikTok situation? I don't think they should be banned. I don't I think let people put up whatever videos etc. And I think I got problems with every social media algorithm right. I think it's a gigantic problem in general social media. And so I'm really of two minds with it because I think we're allowing our society [00:16:57] to unravel where algorithms based simply on sheer eyeball attention time. Just surely to create more billions in profit for these companies is decaying our society at a rapid rate. And I think from a national security standpoint, it doesn't make sense [00:17:13] to allow a company that is from one of our biggest adversaries to be influencing the minds of our nation. That said, you know, Theo made a funny and good point about that is that if it's about information, personal information, they've already got that each person [00:17:29] only has six pieces of information. You've already got that. What do you want my shoe size or my last Uber Eats order? Those are points Theo made that were funny. But it's not about that. It's about the dissemination of information going into people's ears. And I'm just curious. Like you said, you have major issues that doesn't bother you. [00:17:45] As bad as social media is that it's also Chinese controlled social media. You just think it should be. Yeah, I think that they should pass the same law for all social media. And so if you want to protect people's privacy, etc., there's a law that you could pass that applies to all of the companies. [00:18:01] So we're not worried about China or or some corporation like meta. ET cetera. Having our information and abusing it. Right. So if you target one particular platform, it's unconstitutional to begin with. And I don't think that it will work. And I think it's a bad idea and I think it's a problem for the First Amendment. [00:18:19] But if you do blanket rules that are that make sense for all the platforms and we all agree to that protects our privacy in some ways, great. No problem. But it's not a First Amendment issue if you're trying to stop the infiltration of our nation. But under that logic, we could say, well, okay, who owns what platforms do [00:18:36] they have any national ethnicity like for first of all, you got shareholders there from all over the world, right? And then you got executives there from all over the world, like, I knew a digital media company down the street whose CEO was Israeli. Are we going to say, okay, that's it. [00:18:53] Now you have new rules, extra rules, because your executive is Israeli? No. That's absurd. That's a fair point. Also, on that point, I forgot to ask you the reverse question. I, you know, always will be reasonable when presented with a reasonable question or argument. Is the same true for you if it's proved? [00:19:08] If then all of the people in Gaza are allowed to return to the north, will you then admit it was not ethnic cleansing? If they keep none of the Gaza and they allow people to return, I will give them credit for that, no question about it. In fact, you know, they signed a ceasefire with Hezbollah to withdraw from southern Lebanon. [00:19:25] And I came on the show and said, hey, listen, we were really worried that they were going to keep southern Lebanon, but they made this deal and they're not keeping it. So that's fair. And credit where credit is due. So facts matter. Thanks for watching The Young Turks really appreciate it. Another way to show support is through YouTube memberships. [00:19:40] You'll get to interact with us more. There's live chat emojis, badges. 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