So now we talked on the show about how Trump has basically said that we're doing this war for Israel and he added also for the Gulf countries, but no mention of doing it for us. And because that's largely indefensible and a person who agrees with us on that is former Congresswoman [00:00:17] Marjorie Taylor Greene. She tweeted out, quote, this is a quote from Trump, we are doing it to help Israel. Now, she says, Trump says we don't need to do it at all on attacking Iran. You're paying a ridiculous gas prices for inflation, inflation is rising. And we're evaporating [00:00:33] our weapons stockpiles, and he finally admitted why. Wake up everyone, she says, and she makes a good point. uh Trump even said in that clip, we don't even need this war. So we are doing it presumably only because Israel and he claims the Gulf countries asked for it. [00:00:51] Now we know the Gulf countries did not ask for they're very upset about it. But that's Marjorie Taylor Greene fighting back on this. So, um but interestingly, there's a battle within progressive ranks and left wing ranks now. Because some folks like uh Representative [00:01:08] Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says, well, I don't care if Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying the right things or even voting the right way on this issue. We still shouldn't work with her. Here's her case for that. I care about results. I care about results. Now there are certain [00:01:24] places where certain areas where I don't think. should ignore some folks record on some of these issues, right? It's about where we trust intent, where we trust where those outcomes are going. I personally do not trust someone [00:01:45] like Marjorie Taylor Greene, a proven bigot and anti-Semite, on the issues of what is good for Gazans and Israelis. to align the left with white nationalists. I don't think it serves us. And so I think [00:02:07] it's about looking at the context, the place, the results, the outcomes, intentions, and where we think that train would go. Yeah, so Representative Canazan is uh guest host with us today. And Roe, look, your voting record and Representative Ocasio-Cortez's voting [00:02:27] record is very similar on this issue. I appreciate her voting record on this. Largely there's one area where she wasn't, or a couple areas where she wasn't perfectly right, but I get it. Overall, very good record on voting the right way. But she says there that she cares about results, but when you have Marjorie Taylor Greene voting with you, isn't that results? [00:02:50] Well, let's look at the bigger uh principle. Obviously, we shouldn't compromise an inch when it comes to real progressive values. No one is saying that we should throw the trans community under the bus, throw the immigrant community under the bus, throw women's rights [00:03:06] under the bus, throw black political rights under the bus. And in my case, I never have, I voted against Lake and Raleigh, I've uh voted and supported the trans community even then when other uh folks were. them under the bus soon after Trump's election. But what I've [00:03:22] said is, if we can get folks to say that they're going to help us stand up against war. If we can get folks to say they're going to help us stand up against an Epstein class that is abusing the system and treating working class girls as dispensable. Then I welcome their [00:03:39] support for progressive goals, for progressive ideals. And that uh without their support, we're not going to be effective, especially when you have a conservative president. So my view is pragmatism to achieve progressive ends, not pragmatism to discard progressive [00:03:59] ideals. Yeah, so I'm to come back to results in a second because she said one more thing about uh a bill that she basically worked with Ted Cruz on. So but let me ask you, she says that she doesn't trust Marjorie Taylor Greene. And she says she has presumably bad intent [00:04:19] since she questioned her intentions. uh So I'll tell you my opinion, which is that uh I don't really care about their intent at all. I care about their votes, and I care what they're telling the people that follow them and believe in them. And Marjorie Taylor [00:04:36] Greene, Tucker Carlson, Tom Massey, so many others seemingly have flipped. millions of people on the right wing and independents to say, yeah, we probably should care about American sovereignty and not follow whatever everything Israel says. And not fund everything they [00:04:51] want and not go into this disastrous war in Iran. So um I don't really care what their secret thoughts are, as long as what they're actually saying and how they're influencing people and how they're voting is going in the right direction. Are we supposed to analyze [00:05:10] the secret intent of everyone we're voting together with? I don't know if we can uh figure out what lurks in a human being's heart. What we can look at is what their actions are. And there's no doubt that uh some of these individuals have said uh terrible things in the past and [00:05:31] you can call them out for those things. But in the case of the war in Iran, when Donald Trump threatened to blow up the entire Iranian civilization, basically threatened genocide against Iran, threatened a war crime. And some of our Democratic leaders were saying, well, [00:05:48] maybe you should consult Congress. You had people like Marjorie Teller Greene and Tucker Carlson saying that would be a war crime and genocide. And there is uh absolutely no way that an American president should do that. And for us to say that we are a nation inspired by [00:06:04] Christianity. Well, If we're not going to recognize that in this country, with Donald Trump as president, that is helpful to those of us who don't wanna see Iran blown up, who don't wanna see our troops there, or Iranian schoolgirls killed. Then we are not being effective in [00:06:23] stopping this war. And so what I would say is, this is not about saying I'm gonna vote for a certain person or I'm endorse a certain person. It's about saying that when there are huge issues with huge stakes, I'm going to build a coalition that is actually going to [00:06:41] prevent war uh or hold, like I said, the Epstein class accountable. Because we would never would have gotten the Epstein bill through the line if Marjorie Taylor Greene had enlisted her seat and stood up to the president. That's a fact, couldn't have done it, Massey couldn't have done it without her, without Lauren Barber, without Nancy Mace. Yeah, so it's not a little [00:07:00] thing, right? I mean, we've got- uh massively important issues like the Epstein files, Iran war, genocide. And it's not like they didn't make a difference. If Massey hadn't joined you, there's no way in the world you could have gotten the Epstein files released. But you [00:07:15] also desperately needed Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mace, and Lauren Boebert. And I disagree with Massey on 91 % of stuff, that's kind of literal. I disagree with Nancy Mace probably and Lauren Boebert probably on 99 % of stuff. But when they come over and give you the critical votes you need on the Epstein files, You would have been a little nuts to reject that, wouldn't [00:07:36] you? Well, it would have been disservice to the survivors and it would not have uh gotten transparency. Now I'm not out there uh defending uh everything Marjatella Greene said. And if I'm asked about it, I say I have very profound disagreements and I understand why people feel [00:07:55] uh deeply hurt by commentaries made in the past and I call those out. But uh It means that where there are issues that uh we can have a coalition to stop war, to hold the Epstein [00:08:11] class accountable, we should. And we also in my view, this is maybe some people will say I'm old fashioned or naive, but I believe based on my upbringing and extending grace and extending uh a sense that none of us are perfect and people can have redemptive qualities. [00:08:30] And in my view, that's the best of the American tradition, the conscience of our nation, in my view, has been the black freedom struggle in the South. And that was the attitude that Dr. King took towards people who were segregationists. That's the attitude John Lewis took to people [00:08:48] who beat him on the Edmund Pettus Bridge. There has to be a sense of uh moral conviction uh without uh writing off uh huge segments of the American population. Yeah, last two things here because ah that's a great point about Martin Luther King. He actually would have of course [00:09:07] never gotten the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights Act if he didn't work with Lyndon Johnson. And Lyndon Johnson in private was viciously racist. So if he said-. in public. And in public oftentimes, that's right. So if he had said no, I'm doing a purity test, I don't want your Voting Rights Act, I don't want your Civil Rights Act, it would have been a historic mistake. [00:09:28] So now and people like Tucker, he said terrible things 20 years ago about Muslims. I grew up Muslim. But now he says, my God, don't hate Muslims. It's a terrible thing to hate Muslims. And a good Christian should never hate Muslims. Am I supposed to reject that guy on that issue? [00:09:44] No, that's crazy. But the last thing here is uh one last part of that appearance from uh Representative Ocasio-Cortez about how sometimes it is okay to work with Republicans, which was curious given what she said earlier. Let's watch. I think it's really about what our outcomes are. And to be honest, there are some areas where things will not get done if they're [00:10:03] partisan because they are anti establishment. There is bipartisan consensus on keeping and protecting stock trading in Congress. And so it's gonna require massive bipartisan consensus of people willing to come together across those differences to get it done. So [00:10:23] she worked with Ted Cruz on some of that. So working with Ted Cruz is okay, does he have good intent secretly? Or is it that the issue is so important stock trading, which it is very, very important issue that she's willing to get past those problems. um But I would [00:10:40] argue genocide and war and the FC and files are at least as important as stock trading. um I would argue more important. So I can't make heads or tails about when she thinks it's okay to work based on results. and when not to work on results. That's my opinion. [00:10:58] But what's your test for when to work with a Republican and when not to? because I can't seem to quite figure out hers. Well, first I just want to be clear that Representative Ocasio-Cortez, as I'm sure you would agree, has been a very positive force overall in the [00:11:14] progressive movement and in the Congress. And she generally has been a leader in uh banning stock trading. She has worked across the aisle on that. I support her bills, I support her efforts, I support the Trust Act and she's absolutely right. You need to build bipartisan consensus [00:11:31] to be able to do that. I guess what I would say is when people are elected to the Congress and they come there, that uh if they agree on a goal that uh we believe is uh valuable and the stakes matter, then we should work with them. But we shouldn't work with them. [00:11:50] while compromising our values. So Marjorie Taylor Greene had said, okay, Roe, uh I will sign the Epstein Transparency Act. But you know what? uh I need you at the press conference to have anti-trans activists. Or I need you to have uh people who are going to uh say that we [00:12:05] need to have a total unfettered Second Amendment, but no uh gun uh safety laws. And Massey had said, that's what I need, because I've got a family that sends you a Christmas card with everyone holding a semi-automatic weapon. I said no, I'm not going to compromise on something [00:12:21] that fundamental. But if they're saying, look, I'm willing to work with you on this issue, then I think that we should work on those common goals to be able to get things done. Yeah, I just don't find it complicated. I'll go further than you. somebody's going to vote [00:12:41] with me, I'm going to say yes, I just don't find it complicated at all. But you're absolutely right Ocasio-Cortez has uh voted the right way on almost all the uh issues in regards to Israel and certainly against the war. And I don't want anybody getting the wrong idea. we're [00:12:59] discussing is not whether we, and Gero and I have different opinions on this, uh but whether we think Ocasio-Cortez's record is good or not. What we're discussing is, how much should we work with people from across the aisle if they're willing to the aisle and let's also [00:13:15] note for the record because this is important. They're doing it and in fact, Ro, I'll challenge you a little bit on this. Because Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker and all those guys crossed the aisle to work with you guys when they were in charge, when Trump and their party and their side was in charge. And I would argue that the Democrats did not do nearly enough [00:13:36] when Biden was in charge to oppose his funding of what Israel had done in those years, including the genocide. Well, I think it's fair. mean, look, Massey and I had worked on a war powers resolution to actually call out some of Trump's, uh Biden's unilateral strikes on the Houthis. [00:13:54] One of the reasons Massey and I have this relationship is we've uh done stood up against militarism uh and unconstitutional militarism, whether there was a Democrat or a Republican. And we did call out Biden. And of course, there were 37 of us who voted against the funding [00:14:10] to net me out who in while Biden was president, but could we have done more? Absolutely, and it's important to realize people say, well, we appreciate your courage taking on the Epstein class, taking on billionaires and the billionaire tax. But the consequences I faced pale in comparison [00:14:30] to the consequences that Thomas Massey is facing on Tuesday, where he has the entire presidential apparatus against him, $35 million against him. consequences Marjorie Taylor Green faced. And that is not a subjective statement, that is just a statement of fact. When you take [00:14:48] on your own party, the risk is much higher in these issues. Yeah, and Tom Massey is going to be on the Young Turks on Monday, so check that out as well. uh