We did not see any combatants in the hospital. We did not treat any obvious combatants like I mentioned. It's not like they're wearing a vest that says, you know, Hamas. Was there ever a moment where you feared for your own life because the IDF has been able to just slaughter people with impunity? I mean, American citizens in the West Bank, which of course, [00:00:18] Hamas doesn't govern, have been killed by Israeli settlers with impunity. So was there ever a thought in your mind that this might be it for me? I remember getting there as a seven year old child who had a shrapnel injury to his abdomen, had two surgeries already into his abdomen in a matter of a week. [00:00:36] And when I got there, he was yellow as a crayon. I don't think I deserve the praise. I think this is an obligation to us as physicians and nurses, health care workers. The few American doctors here are doing what they can to help Palestinian medical staff. A photo above Zainab reads Zainab the Queen. [00:00:52] She suffers from a condition that means she needs special baby formula. Foreign doctors saying any formula they bring with them is confiscated by Israeli authorities, part of a wider five month blockade of the strip. Images of skeletal Palestinian children like Zainab, sparking outrage around the world. [00:01:08] But Israel is casting doubt on claims of famine. One thing that has given me a little bit of hope in this entire nightmare that's currently transpiring in Gaza, which of course, is aided and abetted by the United States, by our government, by our tax dollars, [00:01:25] is the fact that we have brave and courageous American doctors who will literally leave their families, risk their lives to provide medical aid to Palestinians who are suffering from the brunt of this ongoing genocide. [00:01:40] One of those doctors is actually an individual I spoke about last week. His name is Doctor Aziz Ruman and he was recently interviewed by Theo Von. I encourage everyone to check out the full interview and if you haven't already, please do so. But luckily today Doctor Ruman is here to speak with us [00:01:58] and I'm so grateful to have you. Doctor. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me, Anna. I'm really excited. I'm really excited to speak with you. You know, you had a lengthy interview with Theo Von, and I don't want to ask you the exact same question, so I really I'm going to make a point to kind of have you elaborate [00:02:14] on some of the things that you did say during the interview. But before we get to all of that, you know, I just want to remind the audience that, you know, the doctor actually worked at Nassau Hospital. And if you remember any of our coverage of some of the things that happened to Nassau Hospital throughout the last two years, you know, you'll remember the raid. [00:02:34] You'll remember, you know, Israeli bombardment. You might actually remember this. In Gaza, medics and civil defense workers are still recovering bodies from mass graves found at the Nasser medical complex for the sixth day in a row following Israel's siege on the hospital. [00:02:50] Over 320 bodies have so far been discovered, including women, children, patients and medical staff. We don't have medication to complete their treatment. The simplest thing, like painkiller and anesthesia. [00:03:05] We don't have. We don't have cause we don't have love. We don't have anything. So, doctor, now that you've experienced what Nassar Hospital was like, I mean, tell me what it was like, you know, serving patients there [00:03:22] under conditions like that. Yeah. So there's a story of serving the patients, and then there's a story of the healthcare workers themselves, especially in the setting of what you just described of the mass graves being discovered in the grounds of Nassar hospital. We were actually on the fourth floor balcony. We were looking over what was now a parking lot, but that was [00:03:40] what was in 2024, the mass grave. And it was just really odd to see busses of all the employees coming down and just driving over that area because there's no space anywhere else. But as for the patients themselves, it was just a constant influx of women, children, men, boys, girls and elderly handicapped. [00:03:59] And it just no, no one, way to describe just the chaos that ensued with all the family members coming in. Going up and down the stairs took way longer than it needed to, because they're just packed with people trying to sit on a stair because they feel safer in the hospital than outside of the hospital. [00:04:17] Even in the refugee camps where it's supposed to be a safe green zone. So it was just absolute hecticness all the time throughout the hospital, in Basra. Hospital. You know, there have been videos showing IDF soldiers inside hospitals intentionally destroying some of the equipment, [00:04:34] making it even more difficult to provide care for those who have been wounded. Did you see any of that or experience any of that during your time at Nasser Hospital? When we first got there, they had put a red zone right outside the hospital [00:04:50] when we were really afraid that they would invade Nasser Hospital, and they've done it before. So we were taking it very seriously. The organization I went through, which was Rhema Worldwide, advised us, you know, if they come in, just follow the instructions, do whatever they say. But luckily that didn't happen. That said, I talked to many of the healthcare workers there [00:05:08] and you know, the last time in 2024, they shot into the hospital and then the hospital director called the Israeli army, said, why did you do this? Like, what's going on? And they said, oh, you did that. You guys exploded an oxygen tank. Which was complete, you know, you know, chaos [00:05:24] because then they invaded afterwards. But just walking throughout the hospital, you see the destruction in the burn unit, you see where the drone struck the, journalist. And, you know, there's five bed burn unit that's completely destroyed. You even go to the radiology area, and there's a there's [00:05:41] a cinderblocks blocking up a, a door that was exploded by a tank shell. Yeah. So everywhere you walk through Nasser Hospital, you see signs of the destruction and you see names of the IDF soldiers on the walls. And I was told they took they took selfies in that area kind of to show off on [00:05:59] their social media that, hey, I was here, which is absolutely Be insane. But no, we actually didn't see any Israeli soldiers while in the Nasser Hospital area. And the distance we could see the tanks, the drones, the the jets, the Apaches. And then upon entry and exiting, we could see the soldiers and, [00:06:18] their kind of battalions. You know, one of the claims that Israel makes in regard to why these hospital attacks happen is that they're allegedly being used as Hamas command centers, essentially headquarters for their military operations, even though Hamas obviously doesn't have a military. [00:06:35] So, you know, I know you told Theo Vaughn that you didn't see any Hamas militants, but was there any any conversation about Hamas using hospitals as command centers? Was there any, you know, gossip about that, any rumors about that? [00:06:54] I think what I was trying to convey is no one really has time to talk about Hamas, and they're just trying to survive. They're trying to go to go get food. If they can't, if they can afford it, they'll go to the markets. That said, as I mentioned on the show, I was curious. So I asked the questions that nobody else was talking about, [00:07:09] which is like, hey, tell me more like what's going on out there? And, you know, are they actually here in the hospital, like what's going on with Shifa Hospital? You know, they said there was a huge tunnel system underneath with European General Hospital, which was I was supposed to go, but they blew it up. I was really excited to go there because they had an angio suite [00:07:25] to do interventional radiology procedures. But, you know, I asked like what, you know, was there actually a tunnel underneath the hospital? And everyone's, you know, blatantly denies it. In fact, I'm waiting for some actual evidence. Besides, you know, some gossip here and there that there was a tunnel. So, you know, in short, we did not see any combatants in the hospital. [00:07:43] We did not treat any obvious combatants like I mentioned. It's not like they're wearing a vest that says, you know, Hamas. And then, to to assume there's a tunnel system underneath the hospital. I mean, that's the responsibility of a special forces to figure that out. You can't just bomb the hospital and assume something's underground. [00:08:00] You know what I'm saying? Doctor Ramon, you know, you shared the story of the conversation you had with your wife prior to leaving for Nassar Hospital, and I'd like to believe that if I were in your wife's position, I would be as brave [00:08:16] as she was, that I would be willing to make the kind of sacrifice that she did. Especially given the fact that, you know, the IDF is not going to be able to distinguish whether you're a, you know, a Palestinian. I mean, you honestly don't look like a white American, right? [00:08:34] So was there ever a moment where you feared for your own life because the IDF has been able to just slaughter people with impunity? I mean, American citizens in the West Bank, which of course, Hamas doesn't govern, have been killed by Israeli settlers with impunity. [00:08:50] So was there ever a thought in your mind that this might be it for me? Yeah. I mean, going before I even went there, I kind of went back and forth many times to actually decide whether I want to go through with this mission. In the end, it was a resounding yes. [00:09:07] And I'm glad I went because, the stories I came back with just absolutely life changing. But that said, even when we were there, just seeing the destruction around you and seeing how there's a bomb about every 30 minutes, you know, up to 200m away, [00:09:25] you know, you can constantly hear the military activity to the point that they almost, our organization was telling us they might actually invade Nasser Hospital. I mean, we there was six American, four American doctors in this group of six doctors. [00:09:41] And we were constantly just keeping our families up to date. You know, you know, we're just making sure we told them we love them at the end of the day, because even at night, like, you just wake up in the middle of the night with this ginormous bomb and it just rumbles your eardrums, the doors, the windows. [00:09:57] So, yeah, I mean, I never felt imminently at death, a threat to die because I'm not Palestinian or local. But you are right. Could they have mistaken me? Absolutely. And that's why we were told to always wear our, you know, vests that have the logos [00:10:16] of the organization we're with. And if we can carry our phones, because they say that the drones can actually track, who is where, and we're all connected to the Israeli towers anyways, so I kind of believe that. So let's talk a little bit about the patients. [00:10:33] You know, describe to me what you experienced. What were the more memorable patients that you treated while you were in Nassar? Yeah. So if you watched the, the interview, I talked about the 30 year old woman [00:10:52] with the extracted fetus, and I talked about the 15 year old Amir. And those were some of my most intense memories. But there are many, like, there's just so many different stories. So, for example, I remember getting there with a seven year old child who had a shrapnel injury to his abdomen, had two surgeries already [00:11:11] into his abdomen in a matter of a week. And when I got there, he was yellow as a crayon and his bilirubin was like 40, which is almost, you know, incompatible with life. And so, they were waiting for someone to do something. [00:11:27] And it just so happened that I, my specialty was there to be able to treat him. So when the doctor advised the parents that, you know, this doctor, this American doctor is going to take care of you, they were just begging me to do it, like, immediately. And once we were able to do that, he got we put the drain into his liver [00:11:44] to relieve that obstruction, the blockage. And he got better. But my point is, like, if we weren't there, there wouldn't be enough doctors to do these procedures on these patients. And unfortunately, what's happening now is Israel's blocking even, NGOs [00:12:01] and medical groups such as Rahma. They just got blocked from going there next two missions indefinitely. I'm not sure. I think Catholic Relief Services got banned. So, you know, what's happening right now is physicians are being blocked from going to Gaza. And we're like, really? The last hope. That's I hadn't gotten that update. [00:12:19] I can't imagine what kinds of excuses are being used to block medical professionals into entering the Gaza Strip. But I actually think it's important for you to if you if you are willing to do so, of course, because it is a horrific incident and case. [00:12:35] If you're willing to talk a little bit about the 30 year old woman, because I think her story is an important one to share. So for those of you who heard him talk about it on Theo Vaughn's podcast, apologies, you're going to hear it again. But I think it's important for those who haven't heard it to really understand the reality on the ground in Gaza. [00:12:53] You know, and this is a story I saw, right? I firsthand visualize this, but this happens so frequently, and I will reiterate it because it is so powerful and disgusting and wrong and unnatural, but essentially a 30 year old. [00:13:09] We see her in the trauma bay. She her she her blood pressure is dropping. We do an ultrasound of her uterus. She's about 14, 15 weeks pregnant, making sure the baby has a heart rate, but unfortunately, we don't find any fetal heart tones, so no baby heartbeat. [00:13:25] So her blood pressure is dropping. We take her emergently to the operating room, and they do a fetal extraction, and they have to remove the uterus. When we looked at the fetus, it's it's just so wrong. It's, you know, we have fetal demise for so many medical reasons, [00:13:42] and it's natural, right? But to see an exploded fetus, with blood coming out of the neck of the fetus, which is, you know, so tiny, it's it's despicable. And, and on top of that, even though the woman survived, she's never going [00:14:01] to have a baby again, you know? So she went from almost having a baby in a few months to never having a baby again to having, you know, the memory of an exploded fetus by, you know, the occupation. It's just it's something that I lost sleep over when I was there. [00:14:18] And I continue to think about because, you know, sometimes when I'm scrolling through my pictures, I'm preparing for these interviews. I come across that fetus again. And it's just it's just so devastating. And I actually did a grand rounds at one of my hospitals here, [00:14:34] and I shared that picture. So it is available on to see. I wouldn't advise anyone to just see it for the sake of seeing it, but it really just goes to show you the brutality that's going on there. Yeah, I mean, I definitely would not be able to handle seeing it. Just hearing you talk about it makes me I have a difficult time with it. [00:14:50] But I think it's so important for, you know, these atrocities to be documented, you know, and and for the evidence of what's actually happening on the ground to be available so people know what the truth is. And when you hear about these stories of how people have been maimed, [00:15:06] you know, it makes me wonder how the Palestinian people feel about Americans. I'm not talking about the American government, but about the American people. Because, as I'm sure you know, it's not like we really have much of a choice [00:15:21] in whether or not, you know, tens of billions of our dollars get funneled to Israel to carry out these atrocities. Both political parties support it. Both political parties do as they're told by the Israeli government. And I really it breaks my heart. I feel a tremendous amount of shame. [00:15:39] And I feel our only saving grace happens to be people like you who are there providing aid and really risking your life to do it. But what sense do you get from the Palestinian people in regard to Americans? Well, as you as you know, they have no hope in the politicians, [00:15:57] but for the people, they it's mixed feelings, you know. So one of the first questions I got asked when I was there is, you know, were you part of the encampments, were you part of the protests because they want they kind of use that as a baseline. Like are you actually speaking up on behalf of us? [00:16:13] Are you using your free voice that you have in America that we don't have and actually speaking for the oppressed? You know, and by the way, there are very selfless people. They want you to speak up for the oppressed everywhere. Yes, they want you to speak about Gaza, but they want you to speak up on Sudan [00:16:29] and all the other places that, that, that unfortunately, oppression is really rampant. But I will say, majority of people know that the citizens of America have nothing to do with this. They know that most Americans are just busy trying to, you know, pay their taxes. [00:16:46] You know, pay their mortgage, take their kids home from school. They're humans too. They go through the same, you know, kind of life that we do. Aside from the fact that they have to go through nine wars in ten years or something like that. So, no, they I don't think that they have anything against American citizens, [00:17:02] to the point I even, I even will go as far as to say, like if, if they can just have peace, they would somehow figure out a way to coexist with Israel because they just they just don't want killing anymore. They just want to live as human beings. But the problem is, are we really going to get to a, [00:17:18] a state where everyone has equal rights and it's a complete equal democracy like we were supposed to have in America? Are we actually going to get to that point there? - I don't know. - Yeah. I mean, look, I, I love all the wonderful people out there who truly have the optimism necessary to believe in a one state solution. [00:17:36] I am not one of those optimistic people. I think two states makes a lot more sense, because I think the Palestinian people deserve their own state self-determination without the meddling. And, you know, the scheming that we've seen by the Israeli government to prevent them from being able to live lives of dignity, you know. [00:17:54] And so I'm, I'm kind of terrified to know the answer to this, because I know that it is an issue. You know, recently there was a graduation in Gaza featuring 1000 children who have been orphaned. [00:18:12] That video was really difficult to watch. But I'm curious when it comes to children who don't make it, you know, they get whatever medical aid they can, but they don't make it. Have you experienced, patients, children who have passed, but no one [00:18:29] claims their bodies because their adult family members have also been killed? Of course. We actually went to the morgue when I was there, at one of these, massacres. And after one of the massacres and, you know, there's this gazebo [00:18:46] and they just ten, 15 bodies there waiting to be claimed. And some of them are kids, some of them are adults, some of them are elderly. And, you know, sometimes a family comes by and identifies one of them, and you just hear this really loud shriek, and it's devastating [00:19:04] and it just penetrates your heart. But yes, absolutely. There are, you know, 15 year olds, 12 year olds, ten year olds just waiting to be identified in the white plastic wrap that their body's in with the zipper tied up. And, yeah, no one claims them. [00:19:20] And eventually the Ministry of Health has to document it and bury them. So, yeah, that happened. I mean, even today, one of my colleagues I keep up with there, there's a maybe a ten year old boy. Father, mother, sister, brother, got bombed. [00:19:36] They all died. They. This kid had 50% burns, and they tried to keep him alive, but he died too. So, you know, he's the last part of that family, and he's going to have to be buried by himself. So this, unfortunately, is so common. You know, there's hundreds of us physicians who have been there. [00:19:52] I appreciate your kind words, but, you know, this is truly part of our Hippocratic oath to humanity. It's not just to Americans. It's to humanity. No matter what color you are, no matter what language you speak. I don't think I deserve the praise. I think this is an obligation to us as physicians and nurses, healthcare workers. [00:20:09] I would love to treat an American patient equally to a Gazan patient. You know, at the end of the day, the human body is a human body. You know, when you do a Cat scan, guess what? We all have the same organs. We all look the same on the inside, believe it or not. So that's how I feel. [00:20:25] Well, I know you don't want the praise, but too bad. Doctor. Ramon, you are. You make me proud to be American. I think that you are an example of American greatness. And I just thank you so much for. For everything that you're doing, not only for what you did in Gaza, but the willingness to speak about what you experienced [00:20:43] and what you saw with your own two eyes, especially in a context where so many journalists in Gaza have been killed, hundreds of them. And so getting the truth out, talking about what's actually being happening, what's actually happening, especially as someone who is, you know, you bear witness to it is is so important. [00:21:00] So, doctor Aziz, Ramon, thank you again. Thank you for being generous with your time. Any final thoughts before we go? Yeah, just like you mentioned the fact that journalists aren't allowed there. You know. Yeah, sure. It's healthcare workers that have to be the journalists, but it's you guys, [00:21:17] you, Anna and all the other, you know, media that's really doing their part to, you know, disseminate this knowledge, amongst the people in America. And I think, you know, it's, it's it's so necessary for us to team up with you guys and really share what's going on. [00:21:32] And, you know, just keep it up. I know you're getting a lot of hate, you know, especially I saw your Canary mission thing yesterday. You know, don't let that stop you. You're so brave. You know, don't let these people stop you. You're you're speaking the truth. And when you get closer to the truth, unfortunately, people get very upset. [00:21:49] - And I really respect you for that. - Thank you. Ain't nobody going to stop me. Let me just tell you that. So thank you again. And please keep in touch. If there's anything else that you know you want to update our audience with, you always have a place here. Thank you again and have a great night. I appreciate it. Thank you. [00:22:04] Every time you ring the bell below, an angel gets his wings. Totally not true, but it does keep you updated on our live shows.