But then there's also legitimate arguments on the other side. Like the other side is making a very legitimate argument about the right to due process. If you get processed and shipped out of the country and put in a prison in El Salvador. We have to make sure that these people are actually guilty. [00:00:15] Otherwise we become monsters. You can't like what is that? When you fight monsters? Be careful that you don't become one. Become one. Yeah, yeah, that's very important. It's very important. You know you can't do that. The Trump administration is apparently eroding foundational American values [00:00:33] so brazenly that Joe Rogan, one of the individuals who endorsed Trump and voted for him in the last presidential election, is now speaking out against him. Now, Donald Trump, meanwhile, is pulling new unbelievable tricks to basically defend his administration's decision to deport Kilmer Abrego. [00:00:51] Garcia. And he's also refusing to return him to the United States, despite the fact that the Supreme Court has ordered him to do so. But before we get to that, here's more from Rogan. He had Tim Dillon on his podcast episode when he was making these points, and [00:01:06] Dillon seemed to agree with him as well. But he's talking about the importance of due process here. - Let's take a look. - Here it is, Benjamin Franklin. It's better 100 guilty persons should escape than one innocent person should suffer. I'm on that side of things. Yeah. That's my. I mean, I think due process exists for a reason. [00:01:23] And the reason is it is horrific for someone to be accused of something they didn't do, be imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit, and then live in a cell, live in a cage with a bunch of. People who did commit. That is wisdom. Yeah. That has survived hundreds of years. [00:01:40] It's incredibly accurate, and it is the foundation of freedom. So that was actually the episode that he had with Derek Poston. But he also made similar points while Tim Dillon was on his show. So he's been talking about this repeatedly, which I'm grateful for, [00:01:57] because I think the points he's making here are incredibly important. Due process is important. It doesn't mean that you are a fan of Abrego Garcia. It doesn't mean that you want to be an advocate for him. It means that you believe in the rule of law and due process. When someone is accused of something. In this case, we have not gotten due process. [00:02:14] And it's not just Rogan who's honestly more left leaning. He's like a more left leaning Trump voter. It's also conservative, you know, legal commentators like this guy named Andy. Andy McCarthy, he was on Fox News and he also ripped [00:02:30] the Trump administration on this. Let's take a quick look at that. There's no question that he there was an order he was not supposed to be sent. As Senator Kennedy said, that was a screw up in 20 years at the Justice Department. I had plenty of screw ups. [00:02:46] But the thing is, when the government screws up, it's supposed to fix it. And what these guys are basically saying is, yeah, we screwed up. So what, they sent him to El Salvador, the government, if it was doing the right thing, the Trump administration should be trying to bring him back [00:03:01] so he can have whatever proceedings he is entitled to to challenge his deportation. I don't understand what Attorney General Bondi is doing here. - Frankly. - So again, that was a conservative. You have Rogan, you have a conservative legal commentator on Fox News [00:03:17] making kind of similar points here about the importance of due process and admitting when you've made a mistake, which, by the way, the white House lawyers have admitted in legal filings. But you still have people like white House press Secretary Caroline Leavitt denying that a mistake was made in deporting Abrego. [00:03:34] - Garcia. - Yeah. So, look, Ana Garcia, there's two issues that are important, and there's tons of confusion about the other stuff that is not important. So in 2019, the last order court order on Abrego Garcia is do not deport period. [00:03:53] Okay. So they deport him even though there's an outstanding court order saying do not deport this guy. Okay. So that means they have to bring him back. Period. Full stop. There's a court order, and then all the courts since then have confirmed there's a court order. You must return him, including the Supreme Court. [00:04:10] Nine to nothing. Right. And even Alito saying, look, I didn't like the way that we ruled and my colleagues ruled. And. ET cetera. ET cetera. But of course, he's got to bring him back because you have to listen to the courts. And he's he's not going to listen. That's the thing. The Trump administration refuses to listen. [00:04:25] They're playing this ridiculous game where they're like, I mean, we can't we can't force Buckley to do it. And then Buckley, okay, that's the president of El Salvador. For those who don't know who I'm talking about. But then Buckley is like, I don't have the power to send him back to the United States. - Okay? - Just stop. [00:04:40] Do you think we're stupid? - Are you stupid? - Like Trump and Buckley? They're like, oh, I. Don't know how to bring him back. - Golly, gee, where is he? - Come on, come on, man. All right, so now the second thing that's super important about, Abrego Garcia is it is not an immigration issue. It's a due process issue. [00:04:58] Yes. Rogan's 100% right? It doesn't matter who Abrego Garcia is, and it does. All of that is for the courts to decide, not for yahoos on X and Instagram to decide. Right. Like, oh, I think he's this I think he's. I don't care what you think. [00:05:13] Sorry. Okay. And by the way, the courts shouldn't care what I think either. They should do a real process because this isn't about his rights. - This is about our rights. - Exactly. Because as Rogan is pointing out here, if he doesn't have due process, we don't have due process. Period. [00:05:28] Guys, you have to get that through your head. If the concept of due process does not exist anymore, it doesn't exist for anyone. That means you don't have to go to court to arrest anyone, deport anyone, etc.. It just means that the government, okay, the big bad government that conservatives [00:05:44] complain about all the time can literally unilaterally point to anyone, accuse them of anything and punish them without due process. We don't want to live in a country like that. It's that simple. We don't want to live in a country like that. Look, I know all about the reports in regard to Abrego. [00:06:03] Garcia. Right. The, his wife had pursued a restraining order against him, yada yada. I get all that. I'm not like someone who's sitting here specifically to talk about what a stand up guy Abrego Garcia is. It's not about him in particular. It's about the rule of law and the fact that there is a process [00:06:20] in place to prevent innocent people from getting inaccurately accused of crimes they did not commit, and then being punished for crimes they did not commit. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. So. Yeah. And look here, you can tell, as usual, we've been the one show that's principled and honest about this. [00:06:37] Because under the Obama administration, when they killed Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen, they claimed the due process was not necessarily judicial process. And we went nuts over it like crazy. And I thought that, you know, the attorney general, Eric Holder, [00:06:53] should have been fired instantly. And I said I was embarrassed that he spoke at my graduation at Columbia. And he's a, you know, one of the alumni there. There's a lot of reasons to be embarrassed about Columbia these days, right? Because, of course, it's judicial process. What do you mean it's not judicial process? That's exactly what due process is. [00:07:09] So Obama was 200% wrong there, and Trump is 200% wrong here. But I love that you brought up Obama, because it's a perfect example of something that we've been saying on this show for years now. When your guy, when your preferred candidate wins the [00:07:24] election as it and is in the white House, if they carry out acts that are counter to our constitutional rights, if they behave badly, they basically set a precedent that allows the second administration that might be run by a guy you don't like to carry out [00:07:43] whatever they would like to carry out. And in fact, so I'll build on that real quick too, because back then when we were livid over that, everybody said, no, no, no, don't criticize Obama. Don't, don't, don't criticize Obama. Because what if the Republicans win? What do you mean? What if the Republicans win? He already said that he'd like to destroy due process. [00:08:00] I don't need Republicans to do worse. That's already terrible, right? And so, look, there's a thousand other factors that go into who you vote for, right? And so I voted for those Republicans because I thought they would do things like this. And I was really worried about Trump saying he wanted to terminate the Constitution. And here we are constantly trying to chip away at the Constitution for no reason. [00:08:19] He had a giant win on immigration. He closed down the border. People loved it. The polling went through the roof, and then he comes in and he's like, yeah, but I don't want to follow the Constitution. And now his polling is dropping ten points. And so he turned a win into a loss. Why? He wants to attack the Constitution. [00:08:35] But if you're on Trump's side, you don't want to hear it. No, no, no, I love it. Attacking the Constitution is great when you're on Obama's side. If you were a Democrat and you didn't want to hear it. And mainstream media, by the way, when Trump does it, they go ballistic, right? And they should. Good. I agree with that. When Obama did it, almost no coverage at all, 100%. [00:08:53] So speaking of the media going ballistic, I mean, they keep asking, you know, Trump to explain himself and explain how it is that it's totally okay to not listen to a Supreme Court ruling and continue deporting people without due process. [00:09:09] Here's what Trump says. If we don't get these criminals out of our country, we are not going to have a country any longer. Okay, but who determines whether or not the individual you're accusing of being a criminal is actually, in fact, a criminal? That's where the courts come in. [00:09:25] And by the way, again, just to reiterate, Abrego, Garcia was not in the country illegally. Okay. He was he had a legitimate asylum claim, according to what the court said, and he had protected status to remain in the United States. So for those who are saying, well, even if he's not an Ms. 13 gang member [00:09:42] or gang member in general, who cares? He was in the country illegally. Except he wasn't. And Trump continues to say we cannot give everyone a trial. We cannot give everyone a trial because to do so would take, without exaggeration, 200 years, [00:09:58] we would need hundreds of thousands of trials for the hundreds of thousands of illegals we are sending out of the country. Okay, but what happens if you're accusing someone who's actually an American citizen of being in the country illegally and you deport that individual? And not only that, in this case, they didn't just deport him. [00:10:15] They sent him to a hellhole in El Salvador, one of the worst prisons in the world. And the reason they told the courts, ordered that he should not be deported is because he had a legitimate fear of being harmed by gangs in El Salvador. That prison is filled with gangs from El Salvador. Like you couldn't have sent him to a worse place. [00:10:32] And you can do that without due process. That's crazy. So look, for me, the last couple of things here. So first off, due process is the cornerstone of Western civilization. So don't tell me we're not going to have a country anymore. If we do due process, we literally won't have a country. [00:10:47] If we don't do due process, then we'll just have a normal authoritarian or dictatorial government that we've that has been around forever and ever and ever. What makes America special and awesome is that we believe in Western civilization. We believe in those foundational rights that we have as citizens. [00:11:03] And due process might be the single most important one. That's why we were so upset at Obama earlier, right? So and so last things from the members. Now, dumpster dog rights in just as a fun part due process is woke, right? And a lot of right wingers are saying that due process is nonsense. [00:11:22] Guys. It is. I don't want to hear any of them complain. If a Democratic president points to any of the conservatives and accuses them of a crime, punishes them for alleged crime without giving them a day in court. - In fact. - Because that's what this is. Let's round up all the January 6th, guys. If a Democrat wins, let's just send them to El Salvador [00:11:38] and say, oh, there's nothing we can do. We can't get them back. We can't get them how you can't do that. Well, you don't have due process anymore. So we'll do anything we like. So that's not America. And Trisha Briggs, thank you for pointing this. Joe Rogan making a good point. Again. These are YouTube members. Hit the join button to become part of the show. She says are we in the Upside Down? [00:11:54] Yeah, but look guys, that's why everything including these hosts are not black and white. Other shows want to tell you they're all black and white. If they voted for Trump, they're all Nazis and evil, etc. And and by the way, Joe Rogan is not a leftist. He has some left wing positions, some right wing positions. [00:12:10] He's independent. Whether you like it or not. And there's a whole bunch of his opinions I don't like, but that's not how the world works. Oh, I don't like some of his opinions. Hence he's a Nazi. No, no. And so in this case, he did what I thought he would do, which is actually stand up [00:12:27] for our rights and not like, let's be honest, who on the left said he would? No one. Right. And he did. And it makes a difference because he's part of the guys who helped Trump win. And if you say, well, that's why I hate him, I hear you. But he's also part of the guys now checking Trump which is a good thing. [00:12:45] Okay. I hate when you say final thing because there's more that I want to know from me. Okay. All right. So I want to talk just quickly about what Trump put out there in terms of evidence that Abrego Garcia is part of Ms. 13. So let's go to graphic one. [00:13:00] Here it's a post by Donald Trump. He's a photoshopped image by the way. And in it he says this is the hand of a man that Democrats feel should be brought back to the United States because he is such a fine and innocent person. They said he is not a member of Ms. 13, even though he's got Ms. 13 [00:13:18] tattooed on his knuckles. And two highly respected courts found that he was a member of Ms. 13. Did they beat up his wife? ET cetera. I was elected to take bad people out of the United States, among other things. I must be allowed to do my job, make America great again. [00:13:36] But look, let's take a tighter shot. There we go. Of the alleged Ms. 13 tattoos, the Ms. 13 was photoshopped onto the image. Those are not tattoos that he actually has. The tattoos do include a marijuana leaf. A smiley face. [00:13:54] I guess that's a sign of Ms. Miss 13. And then there's a cross. - And a. - Cross. I mean, I heard people saying that Pete Hegseth shouldn't get the secretary of defense job because he had cross tattoos. But maybe. Maybe this guy should get it. Have you guys seen Ms. 13 tattoos? [00:14:11] Or Ms. 13 gang members. And the type of gang tattoos they have. They have like Ms. 13 scrawled across their forehead. And they're not doing like little little like secret symbols. They're not like, hey, how are you doing, cross? Okay. [00:14:27] Interpret it. Right. No. A weed. Oh, wow. Weed. - That sounds super dangerous. - By the way. Let the courts adjudicate whether or not he's actually a member of Ms. 13. What is the Trump administration so afraid of? Yeah, and it's embarrassing for the president to put up a photoshopped picture [00:14:46] and get caught on it instantly. Don't. What are you doing? But I already said last thing. Every time you ring the bell below, an angel gets its wings. Totally not true, but it does keep you updated on our live shows.