But the majority of our conversation was about the debt ceiling. We're about to find out that Donald Trump wants something super shocking. Take a look. Trump told me. He's not just keen to see it lifted, as we've all seen and covered so many times in the past, but he'd like to see it got rid of [00:00:17] entirely something that's been discussed, really by Democrats mostly in the past, but something that he said he would welcome and would actively campaign for. He argued that the debt ceiling doesn't work for its purpose. It doesn't actually control debt at all, and that its effect is merely psychological. [00:00:32] And it is used again, most often by Republicans, as a sort of a choke point to get something they want out of the majority when they are in the minority. Based. Like what? Okay, so as you just heard from Garrett Hake over at NBC news, Donald [00:00:50] Trump wants to eliminate the debt ceiling, which is something that Democratic lawmakers have been calling for. Republican lawmakers do not want to eliminate the debt ceiling, But I believe what Donald Trump is saying here is absolutely correct. [00:01:05] And so do other Democrats that we're going to hear from in just a minute. Now, it's important to understand that the debt ceiling is different from the government funding bill. Okay. So it's basically a limit set by lawmakers that essentially determines [00:01:21] how much the federal government can borrow in order to pay its bills for things that the government has already spent money on. Now it doesn't authorize any new spending. So again, it is different from the government funding bill that's currently being debated and negotiated in Congress as we speak. [00:01:39] But obviously it's kind of somewhat tied because the amount of money the government spends in their spending packages is related to the debt. Now, with that in mind, in a phone interview with NBC news, Trump said getting rid of the debt ceiling entirely would be the smartest thing [00:01:56] Congress could do. I would support it entirely. Now, Trump actually signed Legislation. Three separate times during his first term in order to lift the debt ceiling. And he probably remembers what that whole process was like, and he didn't like it. [00:02:11] And he called for the elimination of the debt ceiling before during his first term. And so this isn't something new. It's just something that wasn't really emphasized that much in the press. And now he's really calling for this elimination. Now, in his conversation with NBC news, Trump even suggested that the debt ceiling is a meaningless concept [00:02:31] and that people either act like removing it is going to be catastrophic, or that it's going to be meaningless. It's not going to have any impact at all. And so he says it doesn't mean anything except psychologically. Then he says, the Democrats have said they want to get rid of it. [00:02:46] If they want to get rid of it, I would lead the charge. But on social media, he also called the debt ceiling a trap by the Democrats, saying this is a nasty trap set in place by the radical left Democrats. - That's not remotely. - True. It is not true. [00:03:02] In fact, after news came out that he wants to eliminate the debt ceiling. Elizabeth Warren came out and posted this on X, saying, I agree with president elect Trump that Congress should terminate the debt limit and never again govern by hostage taking. Representative Brendan Boyle, who's a Democrat from Pennsylvania and the [00:03:20] ranking member of the budget Committee, has been leading the charge with legislation called the Debt Ceiling Reform Act that would diminish Congress's ability to use the threat of default as a tactic in legislative negotiations. He introduced it back in 2023, last year with Senator Dick Durbin, who [00:03:40] unveiled a companion bill in the Senate. The House bill passed or has 55 co-sponsors, all Democrats, including former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Now, there's already some pushback against Donald Trump from Republicans. So we're going to get to that in just a minute. [00:03:55] But, Jake, what are your thoughts on this? Yeah. First, I want to go to one of our members at TV.com. Don't shoot on the goalkeeper said, Maybe I'm an uneducated F, but I legitimately have no idea what the debt ceiling is. So first, let me just explain that again, and then I'll get into all the details [00:04:10] here because they're so interesting. So the government arbitrarily says that there's a number where we can't borrow past this. Like so. Let's make up a number. All right $1 trillion. So we can you can get debt up to $1 trillion. But if you get past that, you're going to have to ask for authorization [00:04:25] from Congress to go past it. Right. So but they extended every single time, because if they don't extend it, what happens is that the full faith and credit of the US government and the US dollar is called into question. Why? Because that this is money we've already borrowed. [00:04:41] So if you're angry about the deficit or the debt, you handle that in a budget process when you're originally borrowing the money. Okay. But after you've already borrowed the money, this is whether you're going to pay people back or not. That is why if you don't raise the debt ceiling, and that means you're not going [00:04:58] to pay some people back, because by law you cannot go past that number, right? Once the US government doesn't pay people back, That's it. Our credit rating is screwed. The full faith and credit is questioned. Your interest rates go sky high, the debt multiplies, [00:05:14] the economy tanks, inflation reappears. Now, are all those things going to definitely happen? Or is Donald Trump right that maybe it's you know, people say that it's not necessarily going to happen? Well, it depends a little bit on expectations and how people perceive things. So if they perceive it as a small short term thing, oh but yeah, they're going [00:05:33] to get past it and they're going to, you know, actually pay those bills that maybe it's not a catastrophe, but does it risk a catastrophe? Definitely. Right. So it's a very bad idea. And the Republicans have been using it this entire time, to whenever a Democrat is in office, they're like, oh, we're not raising it. [00:05:49] You better give us something. Otherwise we're going to hold the entire global economy hostage. Right. So that's a trick that the Republicans have been using. That's why they're mad at Trump today for getting rid of that ace card, that the trump card, if you will, that they had the Democrats have wanted to get rid of the debt ceiling all along because there's no need for it. [00:06:05] Look, are you going to borrow the money or are you not? Once you borrow the money, you got to pay back the money. You got to pay it back. This arbitrary ceiling is just nonsense, right? So that's why Elizabeth Warren, Durbin, Pelosi, etc. Agree with Trump in this case. Now, I've heard from some left wingers that if you ever agree with a Republican, [00:06:22] you're a racist and a right winger. So I don't know if that makes Elizabeth Warren a racist right winger. But Donald Trump agreed with us first. I know even for some on the left, that's just no way, no way you have to yell at them. Okay. So now, in terms of what we think, well, of course we like it. [00:06:43] He's agreeing with us. He's agreeing to the thing that we have asked for a thousand times. Right. So now why is he going to. It is another interesting question, which is there's three possibilities. One is he didn't do his homework and he doesn't know how the Republicans normally use it. He only knows it when he was in office. And he's like, this is a pain in the ass. [00:07:00] Why do I have to get a vote on this every time? And it might be that he out of self-interest, he's like, I don't want to bother with it 3 or 4 times in my term like I did last time. And besides which, it makes no sense. Of course, it's never made any sense. It's just been a trick by your party all along. [00:07:16] My guess is he didn't do the homework on that. And probably someone like Ellen was like, why are we messing around with this? - Why don't you just get rid of it? - No, Ellen. Ellen wants to keep the debt ceiling in place. In fact. Interesting. He's making the argument that, well, maybe we can cut government spending [00:07:31] so much that we don't even. We don't even hit the debt ceiling. He made that argument, which, by the way, the two things are not tied together. He you know, he's referring to the current debate that's taking place in regard to the government funding bill. And so he made a point about how, well, maybe we cut the government funding, [00:07:49] like the funding for the government so much that we don't even need to worry about lifting the debt ceiling. Again. You're right. Those things are not related. Yes, but he gave the game away in terms of what he feels in regard to the debt ceiling. It seems like he wants to keep it in place. [00:08:05] I got to say, I also don't think Ellen knows what he's talking about. Like there's this idea that like, oh, Trump doesn't know, but. Ellen. Ellen. Well, if Ellen knows so much, why did he get ahead of Trump on some of these on the budget, for example, and thereby set himself up for the criticism that he's leading Trump, [00:08:21] which is a dangerous criticism? That is, there's a and why did he overpay for X by about 20 billion at least, right. There's a lot of things that Ellen doesn't know either. So look, there's a lot out there right now about how Ellen is the one steering the wheel and that Donald Trump is in the back seat taking orders. [00:08:38] I don't know how true that is, but I think that this debate about the debt ceiling might give us the information that we need to know about who's really steering the wheel here, because I think Donald Trump is absolutely right about the debt ceiling and how it should be eliminated. We'll see how it plays out. [00:08:54] But there are some influences trying to push Trump away from that idea, including Chip Roy. So let's talk a little bit about that. So Congressman Chip Roy, not in favor of eliminating the debt ceiling. And he is being vocal about that. [00:09:10] And he's also kind of in a bit of a tiff with Donald Trump in regard to the government spending bill. Now, Trump accused Roy of obstructing budget negotiations, even though both Trump and Roy publicly oppose the original government spending package. [00:09:25] But now Trump is pushing for this debt ceiling elimination, which Roy is absolutely opposed to. So Trump actually did what he does best. He went to Truth Social, used the bully pulpit and basically threatened Congressman Chip Roy unless he comply. [00:09:41] He says the very unpopular congressman from Texas, Chip Roy, is getting in the way, as usual, of having yet another great Republican victory, all for the sake of some cheap publicity for himself. Republican obstructionists have to be done away with weak and [00:09:59] ineffective people like Chip have to be dismissed as being utterly unknowledgable as to the ways of politics and as to making America great again. He also added and this is on X chip. Roy is just another ambitious guy with no talent. [00:10:15] By the way, how's how's Bob Goode doing? I hope some talented challengers are getting ready in the great state of Texas to go after Chip in the primary. He won't have a chance. So he's essentially threatening Chip Roy with a primary challenger [00:10:32] in the future election where he's certainly going to seek reelection. Now, Roy was confronted about Donald Trump's comments and, looked a little like a deer in the headlights. Take a look. Trump is saying you're getting in the way of a Republican victory for cheap publicity. [00:10:48] - What's your reaction to that? - I've been able to read. All we're doing is trying to talk about how to get get a deal done so we can actually cut spending. Do you plan to talk to him to smooth things over? I don't even know what we're talking about. I got to look at whatever was put out there, but we can. Effective people like Chip have been dismissed as utterly unknowledgable [00:11:06] as to the ways of politics and as to making America great again. Put America first and go for victory. We're working right now on how to actually cut spending, which is what the voters sent me to Washington to do. So that's what we're working on. He looks scared. He looks scared. [00:11:23] He knows. He read everything. He read everything he knows. So I wonder when these guys are going to grow a spine. And I mean that. So I'll get to that in a second. But first on the on Trump. Look guys, two things. One on the chip Roy of the stuff he's going nuclear. Way too early. [00:11:38] Chip Roy is one of the most right wing guys in all of Congress. So here he's trying to get the Republicans a bigger advantage so that they could cut more actually between if you're a right winger, honestly, and I'm a little reluctant to say this, but Chip Roy is more right [00:11:53] than Trump is if you're a right winger. If you're a right winger, yes. But because you guys use this debt ceiling to hold us hostage every time and to get more cuts from like, programs we all care about. - I know, but. - Trump doesn't want cuts. Like, look, here's the reality, okay? [00:12:09] Trump actually wants to carry out portions of his agenda and it's going to be costly. It's going to be very costly. And so Trump doesn't want to be stuck in this like annoying debt ceiling fight. Because while Republicans certainly do want to cut like, you know, actual traditional conservative Republicans like Chip Roy, [00:12:28] yeah, he does want to gut the government. Donald Trump knows that his policies are going to cost more money. So there's this like tension brewing that I don't think most people are even privy to right now. Yeah. So so that's what's so interesting about this crazy time in politics, right. [00:12:44] Because Chip Roy is more right wing than Trump. Yes, but Trump is more MAGA than Chip Roy because MAGA is not exactly right wing. Now you're going to say, wait, oh, two parts of MAGA or or or maybe you think all of MAGA is super right wing. [00:12:59] No, you're misreading them. There's tons of massive right wingers in there. And that's where the base starts, of course. Right. But now they've been joined by some populists and some bros and all these other folks. And Trump is a guy who only cares about being popular. [00:13:14] And if you only care about being popular. You know what you would do. You would spend a lot and you would cut taxes. And then you would load up the debt and then leave it for someone else to deal with and brag about how great it was during your term. I mean, which is another old Republican trick, by the way, that Richard Nixon actually came up with and wrote memos about. [00:13:32] So that's what Trump is doing. So he doesn't actually want the right wingers to win here. Let me, let me. And you know what I, I will allow it. So let's go to graphic nine. Okay. So this is from the New York Times. And it goes to the point that I'm trying to make here. So Trump's plans are expected to cost trillions of dollars, [00:13:50] much of which will most likely need to come from borrowed funds. A drawn out debt limit fight next year could force Trump and Republicans to bow to the demands of Democrats, and could consume the congressional calendar. And then here's a quote from Trump. [00:14:07] We're not going to fall into the debt ceiling quicksand. There won't be anything approved unless the debt ceiling is done with. Yeah. And so here what I would say to the Democrats is take the win as quickly as you can, because sometimes Trump changes his mind once somebody goes in and goes, [00:14:24] hey, you know, you could actually make more money the other way, right? So for example, there are many of these examples, but the NRA is a good one. After one of the mass shootings in his first term came out and said, oh, these guys take money from the NRA and they won't do it, but I'll get this under control. And then the next day, the NRA came into his office [00:14:41] and offered him a whole heap of money. Right. Like a giant treasure chest of campaign contributions. And reminded him of the inaugural funds that they provided. And then so the next day, Trump came out and was like, never mind, I love the NRA. We're not going to do any gun control. Don't need it. We just need less doors or whatever, Ted said, right? [00:14:59] So while he's in the mood to get rid of the debt ceiling, Elizabeth Warren's right. Jump on it. Take it. Because this debt ceiling has been an albatross around our neck the entire time. And so whenever they say, yes, take it. And then last thing on that for me is, look, is it enormously hypocritical [00:15:15] of the Republicans? You can go back and find old clips of the Young Turks. I didn't make our producers do it this time, where we say, look, whenever a Democrat is in office, the Republicans are like that silly. And whenever a Republican is in office. They're like, oh, don't worry about the debt ceiling. Right. And they usually just like, pass it to, to raise the ceiling every time [00:15:35] with no hassles at all. Right. But this time, they've gone even further in their hypocrisy and be like, when the Democrats are in charge, it's the most important thing in the world. Now that the Republicans are in charge, forget it. It shouldn't even exist. But who cares? As Ben Mankiewicz says, hypocrisy is overrated. [00:15:50] - It is. - Take the win. - Especially take the. - Win. Agreed. Thanks for watching The Young Turks. Really appreciate it. Another way to show support is through YouTube memberships. You'll get to interact with us more. There's live chat emojis, badges. You've got emojis of me Anna John Jr. So those are super fun. 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