I want to dive into the Israel-Palestine section of the book. It's the largest section of the book. And I have to say, when I when I read the book, I imagine if I took your name out of it, took away the awards and the acclaim, took the cover off the book, the publishing house goes away. The content of that section would not be out of place [00:00:17] in the backpack of an extremist. I have a very. Very, very, very moral compass about this. And again, perhaps it's because of my ancestry. Either apartheid is right or it's wrong. CBS mornings co-host Tony Dokoupil basically accused Ta-Nehisi Coates, [00:00:35] as you just heard in that video of being an extremist over the way he talked about or wrote about Palestinians and the ongoing conflict between Palestinians and Israelis in his new book, The Message. Now, the exchange was pretty wild, to say the least, and we're going [00:00:53] to show you all of the highlights. But for me, this was the most powerful moment. And for this reason, Ta-Nehisi Coates will forever have my respect. Take a listen. What is it that's so particularly offends you about the existence of a Jewish state [00:01:11] that is a Jewish safe place, and not any of the other states out there. There's nothing that offends me about a Jewish state. I am offended by the idea of states built on ethnocracy, no matter where they are Muslim included. I would not want a state where any group of people laid down their [00:01:26] citizenship rights based on ethnicity. The country of Israel is a state in which half the population exists on one tier of citizenship, and everybody else that's ruled by Israelis exist on another tier, including Palestinian Israeli citizens. The only people that exist on that first tier are Israeli Jews. [00:01:44] Why do we support that? Why is that okay? I'm the child of Jim Crow. I'm the child of people that were born into a country where that was exactly the case of American apartheid. I walk over there and I walk through the occupied territories, and I walk down the street in Hebron, and a guy says to me, I can't walk down [00:02:03] the street unless I profess my religion. That was very clear. And in fact, it reminds me of how Michael Brooks, who was Jewish himself, would talk about this conflict and why he had an issue with the treatment [00:02:21] that anyone who isn't Israeli was met with in Israel. But anyway, there's there's a lot more to get to. But I want your thoughts first. Yeah. This Tony Dokoupil guy was basically accusing him of anti-Semitism through the whole interview. Every question was, isn't it interesting that you picked the Jewish state [00:02:39] to be against and no other country? Wait, you think Ta-Nehisi Coates doesn't criticize any other country? What kind of an insane supposition is that? In reality, it's the exact opposite. Dokoupil is saying, how dare you criticize Israel? Don't you know that their lives are much more valuable? [00:02:55] Don't you know you have to lie about them and pretend that they're treating the Palestinians equally? Hey, Tony, you don't mind 57 years of brutal occupation of the Palestinians? You don't mind the 41,000 people slaughtered in Gaza, and you have [00:03:12] the temerity, the gall to pretend that if he's not cheerleading a genocide, that he's anti-Semitic. But guys, look at this point. Something really interesting happened with that interview in my mind. Okay, because a lot of people are really upset about it, which I found [00:03:30] to be stunning because in my life, having been in media for over a quarter century, that was the norm. That was the norm for the entire time. I have had that treatment done to me dozens of times, and even on [00:03:45] the mildest criticism of Israel. Interesting that you picked the Jewish story. I wonder why. In fact, it happened to me today and I was debating a supporter of Israel. And she said, Why is Israel the only country you criticize? What an absurd thing. Are you kidding me? [00:04:01] - You criticize. - So many different. Countries. We criticize America. Our own country. Saudi Arabia, Turkey, you name it, we criticize. Why do you not believe in America's right to exist. Yeah, but but for people like Tony Dokoupil and almost the entire. That's why I bet you right now Tony's at home going, I don't get it. [00:04:18] This is the kind of smear job we always do. And we pretend that Israel is an angel and that and everyone would agree to their slaughters and their occupations unless they were anti-Semites. Why? I picked the wrong target. He's a really well respected African American. [00:04:33] I should have done it to a muslim. Then no one would have cared and everybody would have agreed. Okay, so. Oh, sorry. Tony, you. This is the one time you got caught. And is it unfair? Yeah. Every other anchor has been doing that for a quarter of a century in America, so I love that at least people are pushing back and going get a load [00:04:51] of this racist Dokoupil. And he is he's a giant racist. Now earlier in the exchange, immediately after, Dokoupil basically called Ta-Nehisi Coates an extremist. He dedicated he talked about why he decided to dedicate such a huge portion [00:05:09] of his book on Palestinians. Let's take a look. Why leave out that Israel is surrounded by countries that want to eliminate it? Why leave out that Israel deals with terror groups that want to eliminate it? Why not detail anything of the first and the second Intifada, [00:05:25] the cafe bombings, the bus bombings, the little kids blown to bits? And is it because you just don't believe that Israel in any condition has a right to exist? Well I would say the perspective that you just outlined, there is no shortage [00:05:41] of that perspective in American media. That's the first thing I would say. I am most concerned always with those who don't have a voice, with those who don't have the ability to talk, the reporters of those who believe more sympathetically about Israel and its right to exist don't have a problem getting their voice out. [00:05:58] But what I saw in Palestine, what I saw on the West Bank, what I saw in Haifa, in Israel, what I saw in the South Hebron hills. Those were the stories that I have not heard. Hey, don't scroll away. Come back, come back. Because before the video continues, we just want to urge you [00:06:13] to lend your support to tight U power. Our honest reporting. You do it at tight.com/team and we love you for it. So I just want to be clear and you should watch the entire interview. There wasn't a single moment in which Ta-Nehisi Coates said that he doesn't [00:06:30] believe in Israel's right to exist. The allegation that someone doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist is immediately used when someone is critical of Israel and its treatment of Palestinians in order to shut them up. But at no point did Ta-Nehisi Coates say, I don't believe [00:06:47] in Israel's right to exist. In fact, we'll show you some other highlights where he makes that clear. But I wanted to make it clear now, in case you were wondering if he had ever said that. So let me explain, with examples why Tony Dokoupil is such a bad person. So any moral person. [00:07:02] So he says, oh, aren't you worried about little kids being blown to bits? And he has to go back decades for cafe bombings? That happened, right? Because he only cares about Israelis. But we saw kids being blown to bits just the other day. - Human shields. - Yeah. For the last year, Israel's been blowing up kids to bits endlessly. [00:07:21] Do you know 25,000 dead women and children? A stadium full of massacred women and children. Tony Dokoupil doesn't care. He said, what do you mean? Israel has a right to exist? Hey, idiot, Israel does exist. They are preventing the Palestinians from existing, from Palestine. From existing. You never realized that. You know why? [00:07:38] Because he doesn't care about Palestinians at all. He finds them inanimate objects that are inconveniencing the Israelis. How dare they? Don't they know that they are ruled? They should know when they're ruled. So we showed you that. [00:07:53] I mean, the world saw it. I mean, so many horrors of the emaciated kids, the kids that were crushed to death, blown up, etc. But the one that is just haunting it, you can't get out of your head is the kid with no head that when they lit the tents on fire. [00:08:10] Right. And Tony Dokoupil doesn't care about that at all. He never mentioned that. And he's. And he's outraged at Ta-Nehisi Coates for caring about them. Don't you know they have inconvenienced the most valuable people on earth, the Israelis? [00:08:26] And so if you're wondering why I called him a racist because the occupation, by definition, is racist and it's apartheid because it says it's not a limited occupation. It's not for a short period of time. Hey, we had to occupy them for a little bit, but then we did a peace deal. [00:08:43] And obviously then they got their say. We got our say. They are they're a sovereign country. We're no. For 57 years, the Israelis have said and American media has regurgitated, the Palestinians are so violent by nature that they cannot be trusted [00:08:59] to govern themselves in a sovereign state. Everyone else on earth can, but not the Palestinians. Well, when you say that you're a bona fide, indisputable racist. So CBS has this racist working next to two black anchors. [00:09:16] I okay. Go ahead. Look, I don't believe in cancel culture. And if I did, I'd have to fire 75% of the mainstream media anchors who say the same exact thing. But I'm tired of them pretending that the people opposed to Israel are the racists or bigots when they themselves [00:09:36] are flagrant racists and bigots. I want to go to a final clip, and in this clip, you'll hear Coates address the allegation that he doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist. If you were to read this book, you would be left wondering [00:09:51] why does any of Israel exist? What a horrific place committing horrific acts on a daily basis. So I think the question is central and key. If if Israel has a right to exist, and if your answer is no, then I guess the question becomes, why do the Palestinians have a right to exist? [00:10:08] Why do 20 different Muslim countries? My answer is that no country in this world establishes its ability to exist through rights. Countries establish their ability to exist through force, as America did. And so I think this question of right to Israel does exist. [00:10:24] It's a fact. The question of its right is not a question that I would be faced with with any other country. - Boom. - Yeah. I'll just add two things, because apparently Tony Dokoupil, on top of being a racist, an idiot, the Palestine doesn't exist. [00:10:39] That didn't occur to you as you were saying. Can you believe you are saying theoretically, hypothetically, at some point in a totally impossible situation, Israel might not exist, but you've prevented Palestine from existing for six decades. Yeah. They're irrelevant. Palestinian losers. [00:10:55] Kill them, kill them, kill them. Who cares? Tony, don't pretend that that's not what you think. You showed it in the interview. Clearly you did. You showed no compassion. No empathy at all for Palestinians. You looked at them as they're totally worthless. And so last thing is this whole idea of this giant, stupid talking point [00:11:16] about Israel's right to exist. Okay. When I criticize Saudi Arabia, does that mean, are you saying the Saudis don't have a right to exist? No, I'm saying the Saudi government is doing something wrong. Of course, the Saudi people have a right to exist, and they have [00:11:31] a right to have a government. They have a right to have their own country. They have a right to be sovereign. I'm criticizing their government. But when you say it about Israel, they do this total BS talking point that has tricked the entire country. Oh my God, they're the ones in danger. No they're not. [00:11:47] They have a giant military. They have nukes. They have the United States military to back them up. They're Goliath crushing David to pieces. Well, Tony Dokoupil says anyone who criticizes them is an anti-Semite and a racist and a bigot. And that's the only reason that he could imagine [00:12:03] that anyone would criticize Israel. I, by the way, just emphasizing they have nuclear weapons. They have nuclear weapons. And by the. Way, they're the one country on Earth that I that I'm worried to death would. [00:12:18] Use. It would use it without hesitation because they don't value Muslim lives. They think that they're some Sum of 4000, 40,000 or 4 million Muslim lives is still zero. So to them, who cares if we kill millions of them? [00:12:34] So? So look, that's the thing about Israel. Like they feel invincible. They feel they have a right to attack anyone they like and occupy people for decade after decade. So but if they thought they were an actual danger, [00:12:50] an actual danger for the whole country, is there anything Israel wouldn't do, given what they've done over the last 60 years? And I'm worried about what the answer to that is. Thanks for watching The Young Turks really appreciate it. 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