There are lots of additional costs to hateful terrorist attacks like that carried out by Hamas. Not just in the immediate lives lost, or even the trauma that will last a lifetime for the friends and family members who lost loved ones, or even worse, were forced to witness it. [00:00:15] It spreads across the world. It stokes hatred and bigotry and in this case, antisemitism, which seems to continually rear its head around the world. Whenever Jewish people feel like they have a place, they can feel safe. Just one very small case in point. [00:00:32] This just happened at Stanford University here in America. Stanford University has suspended a lecturer following accusations that he directed Jewish students in his class to stand in the corner and described Israelis as colonizers. Students in one of the classes recounted the lecturer blaming the outbreak of [00:00:51] violence between Israel and Hamas on Zionists and saying Hamas's actions were part of a resistance. He then asked Jewish students to raise their hands and separated them from their belongings, explaining that he was simulating what Jews were doing to Palestinians. [00:01:07] Israeli student leader Nourya Cohen told the San Francisco Chronicle. Cohen said the lecturer asked students how many people had died in the Holocaust. When one student answered six million, the lecturer replied yes, only six million. Students said the lecturer told them more people died as a result of [00:01:24] colonialism than in the Holocaust and that colonization was what happened to Palestinians, Cohen and Andrei Mandelshtam added. They also said students recalled the lecturer separating people in both classes into different groups based on their identities and backgrounds and calling them colonizers and colonized. [00:01:41] Greenberg said he'd spoken to three students who attended the class, citing their accounts, said that the lecturer had said colonizers killed more than six million. Israel is a colonizer. For the record, look at this image I saw on social media. But it's accurate and it I think, makes a very stark point. [00:01:58] Israel is the tiny blue spot, you can barely even see it, it's in the upper right of the middle there. Arab world is in green. Tell me more about how Israel is colonizing Arab land. I think that characterization personally is ridiculous. In a statement, Stanford University said, without prejudging the matter, [00:02:17] this report is a cause for serious concern. Academic freedom does not permit the identity based targeting of students. The instructor in this course is not currently teaching while the university works to ascertain the facts of the situation. This new outbreak of violence between Hamas and Israel has led to a spike in tensions on US college campuses. [00:02:33] With a truck this week driving around Harvard, for example, identifying students it said had signed a document blaming Israel for the war. Very, very scary to just see groups demonized unfairly, and for that to come to our shores. [00:02:52] >> Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Ben okay, I don't agree with the graphic. I'll tell you why I don't agree with the graphic here in a second, and I think that Israel is colonizing Palestinians. But we'll get to that, that's a different and important question. But that doesn't justify anything this professor did. [00:03:12] What he did was mental. What are you doing? First of all, Jewish Americans are not Israelis. It's ridiculous, it makes us sound like they have a loyalty to a different country. No, there are our brothers and sisters, okay? And they're Americans, they're 100% Americans. Second of all, never separate people based on race, religion, what is that? [00:03:31] The Jews go over there, are you insane? That's a lunatic thing to do. And it wouldn't be right if you said the Muslims go over there, or the Christians, the Buddhists, the Hindus, etc. But honestly, especially the Jews, the last time people did that, it didn't end well. So this professor is out of his mind and I don't know why [00:03:48] we're having a conversation of colonization versus Holocaust. They're both terrible, why are you comparing the two? What is the fact that colonists, even if colonization was worse and I hate this conversation entirely about what's worse, they're both horrible. [00:04:04] Even if it was worse, what's your point? Does that make the Holocaust okay? No, the Holocaust is one of the worst things that has ever happened in humanity. So the professor is a billion percent wrong on everything. [00:04:21] Now, having said that, Ben, the problem with that graphic is, okay, but nobody said they're colonizing all the Arab land, right? And you can't colonize any of the land, even if it was a tiny part. Here I'll give you an example from my background, right? [00:04:38] So the Turks, in the middle of the Syrian civil war, decided they were gonna take a portion of northern Syria as a buffer zone, okay? And I spoke out against that and I said that, do not stay. I don't think they should have gone in the first place, but [00:04:55] they definitely shouldn't stay. Now, you could say the Turks could turn around and say, look at all this other Arab land, the stuff in green, we didn't take all of it, we just took a portion of Syria. That doesn't justify it. Now luckily, in that case, they did go back, okay? But you see what I'm saying? You don't have to take all the land, any land you take is not right. [00:05:12] And Israel's not taking Gaza and West Bank, but in terms of whether it's colonizing it, they're occupied. They don't control their own territory, so it's a colonization of a sort, for sure. >> Speaker 1: I disagree completely, because colonization typically connotes [00:05:29] that somebody's trying to exploit the resources of a land, trying to extend their territory into foreign distant lands, trying to get monetary gain of it. >> Speaker 2: The Turks when they colonized the Middle East, they colonized the people right next to them first, and then Eastern Europe, etc. [00:05:45] >> Speaker 1: Sure, but land that is not theirs is my point. Distant that is land that is Israel's. >> Speaker 2: West bank and Gaza. >> Speaker 1: Israel won this land in the 1960s when they were attacked. >> Speaker 2: But that's old school Ben, old school is, [00:06:00] I won your land now I keep it. In the modern world, we're saying, we don't do that, don't do that. What do you mean, why is Israel the only country that is held to that standard? >> Speaker 1: No, everybody- >> Where's America giving back the land we took, where we won in war. >> So we could have kept Iraq, right, and we did all of America. [00:06:15] >> We keep our other areas. >> Speaker 2: And that distinction there is between the modern world and the backwards world, right? And we all lived in the backwards world back then, right? And so countries and empires as a matter of course, Ben is right, would come in and take other people's lands and they wouldn't give it back, right? [00:06:35] That was the old way of doing things. But what we're saying is in the modern world, we wanna be better than that. >> Speaker 1: Sure, but the biggest issue I have with how you're characterizing it is that. I don't think it makes it in any way sense to say it is colonialism, because [00:06:50] they literally are doing this simply for their self defense and protection. And the Palestinian people that then move into Israel live perfectly fine with Israelis. And whether you like it or not, in 2005, Israel completely withdrew from the occupation in Gaza and kept security [00:07:09] control over the area only because of what you just saw happen this Saturday. Even with security control, the government in charge wants to annihilate the Jewish people from the land of Israel 100% and refuses to negotiate with them a peace agreement. [00:07:27] That's literally like saying somebody beats the crap out of you and you respond by pulling out a gun on them. And you're a colonialist now, you're infringing on their rights. No, they've infringed on your rights and you're protecting yourself. [00:07:42] They have no interest in those little swaths of land. >> Speaker 2: Every single empire says the same thing. So the Turks said, yeah, of course the Greeks are impinging upon our land, the Syrians are impinging upon our land. And then they went and kicked their ass and took their land and colonized them. So in this case, you're not wrong. [00:08:00] Yeah, there was a war and the Palestinians killed the Israelis, the Israelis killed the Palestinians and the Israelis won that land. But I'm hoping that in a decent society, they give it back. Is it just for security? [00:08:15] I know that that's the argument that you're making, but the rest of the world does not see it that way and I do not see it. >> Speaker 1: Right, but that's exactly what I take issue with, why does the world and you not see it that way? What interest does Israel have in these two tiny swaths of land? What does that do for them? >> Speaker 2: Water, etc. [00:08:31] >> Speaker 2: But they gave- >> Nonsensical religious beliefs. >> Speaker 1: Nonsensical religious beliefs is exactly what the problem is why they have to keep security control over Gaza even though they did give back that. >> Speaker 2: When do you give it back? Ever, ever, ever >> Speaker 1: When there's not a terrorist [00:08:47] organization running. >> Speaker 2: No you gonna call everybody that the Palestinians pick terrorists, tou know that. >> That is not true. All right, then why don't you give the west- >> Negotiate. >> Israel, not you, why doesn't Israel give back West Bank right now, not led by a terrorist organization led by a Fatah? >> Speaker 1: Because the Netanyahu government currently does not [00:09:04] want to negotiate for a two state solution and that is their fault. That they're wrong on that, yes, absolutely. I don't think they have a great negotiating partner on the other side, but they are a partner you can negotiate with. I mean, Secretary Blinken just went and met with the leader of the Palestinian Authority. [00:09:20] He did not meet with the leader of Hamas because these are terrorists. And so when there are people you can speak with, that's why Israel does continually and historically and even in recent history goes to the negotiating table. >> Speaker 2: Yeah. >> Speaker 1: Israeli people don't wanna live under the constant [00:09:37] threat of missiles and rockets and buses blowing up and random suicide attacks. We would much rather have peace. >> Speaker 2: I know, but Israel is going about it the wrong way, if the occupation is permanent, the threat is permanent. Whereas when you actually make peace deals like Israel did with Egypt, [00:09:53] they haven't had any bloodshed since the peace deal that was 40, 50 years ago, >> Why, because they made a peace deal. >> Speaker 1: So do the peace deal. >> Speaker 1: With Hamas? >> Speaker 2: Yes, definitely with Hamas. >> How, will they say they will negotiate? >> Easy, no, that's not true at all. Ben, look, hold on. [00:10:10] I can give a hundred examples, maybe thousands of examples of the other side being butchers and we make peace deals, okay? So I'll give you one that happened here in America. During the Civil War, the Confederacy was monstrous to the Northerners. [00:10:26] When they captured white soldiers, sometimes they would murder them, sometimes they would lynch them, etc. But oftentimes with the white soldiers, they gave some quarter. But if they captured Northern black soldiers, they would mutilate them. [00:10:42] They were absolute monsters, and we did a peace deal with them because you don't get to negotiate with angels. You negotiate with monsters that are killing you on the other side. >> Speaker 1: There was never a charter from the Confederacy saying that their goal is to eradicate. [00:10:59] >> Speaker 2: America, that's exactly what their charter said. >> Speaker 1: Black people from the face of the earth. >> Speaker 2: They kept them as slaves, that was literally their charter, was, we are gonna keep these people as property. What's worse than that? We're gonna keep them as slaves, [00:11:15] their charter was the most despicable thing in American history. But we still made peace cuz that's how peace works. >> Speaker 2: Of course, but they didn't make the peace agreement during the Civil War. They didn't make the peace agreement on the week that they were currently slaughtering former slaves that were fighting for the union. [00:11:33] They did it after the resolution of the war. So I'm glad then that you agree with me, that the war needs to be resolved and then there needs to be a willingness from the other side to negotiate. >> Speaker 2: Ben, the war is not resolved today because of the current war that Hamas started. Ben is right about that. But we could two weeks ago, two months ago, two years ago, [00:11:51] I could have picked 2000 spots where I would say, well, you've got the occupation, nobody's bombing anyone today, let's do a peace deal. And Ben already said it Netanyahu and the right wing government said, no, they don't want it. Well, you have to get to peace, but you have to let them go Ben, you have to. [00:12:13] >> Well, but also in an attempt to normalize relations like you're suggesting, even with Hamas and this certainly backfired. Netanyahu's government was through Qatar, was allowing funds, was giving funds to Hamas to gain better control, to be able to govern [00:12:30] their own people better and was trying to normalize relations. And look how that worked out, they came and slaughtered people in their homes, kids and babies and old people. I got to go to Jackson, but Ben, 80% of Palestinians need assistance because they don't control their own country in Gaza Strip. [00:12:47] They don't control their own countries, so nothing is allowed in, nothing is allowed out, so they're starving. >> Speaker 1: That is not why, the border with Egypt they could allow anything and Egypt controls that just as hard if not harder than Israel. >> Egypt and Israel are 100% allies. [00:13:03] When Israel says close the border, Egypt closed the border. >> Speaker 1: The hatred that comes out in anti Semitism just only comes towards the Jews, nobody's saying Egypt is being colonial, Egypt is not allowing the- >> By the way, that's a fair point and a lot of pressure should go on Egypt. >> Speaker 1: It 100% should, but also you can't in the moment of something try to expect people to negotiate with [00:13:22] people who are killing them, that just doesn't make any sense. And the reason that the resource are so bad in Gaza is not because Israel has a protection on the outside of the territory. They've given 17 years to this terrorist organization to run things better and [00:13:41] they are hugely corrupt. They funnel money to their rich buddies within Gaza and let their people suffer. They build no infrastructure, they take water pipes and turn them into rocket launchers. They do not care about keeping their people. And in fact, right now, when Israel, before this ground invasion, [00:13:56] has been dropping leaflets and making announcements and telling the UN. Granted, it's very hard to move a million people that quickly, but saying, get out of there, move to the south, we're gonna be coming in. Hamas is saying, don't believe it, stay where you are and telling them to keep in place because they don't care about the lives of their own people. [00:14:12] They would rather have them as shields to be able to further their evil aims. >> Speaker 2: Hamas is terrible, all the things you say about Hamas are right. They still should not try to move 1.1 million people. When the Turks moved that many Armenians, it was called a genocide. [00:14:29] That's what it was called and that's correct. It was correctly labeled that, do not move people and do not indiscriminately bomb. >> Speaker 3: And I think it's pretty clear that Israel has had interest in that land and that doesn't justify anything that Hamas has done. [00:14:44] But governments and political factions always have interest, geopolitical interest, in taking land. So, I think to go back to where we first started with the story of Israel colonizing, you can't really justify that. And then for this professor that had people stand up, that's just ridiculous. [00:15:02] Not only is it ridiculous, but it's really whack, it's petty and it's lame. And I think that anybody who goes down that road should be fired, should be held to account. And unfortunately, I think we're gonna see quite a bit more of that in regards to, again, right wing commentators continuing dispute hate for [00:15:18] Jewish people and also for the Palestinians, it's kind of full circle. >> Speaker 2: That's a note we could all agree on, that what the professor did was incredibly stupid and totally unacceptable.