Many people were wounded and killed and attacked on Gaza refugee camp. The barrage of Israeli airstrikes on Tuesday evening of the Jabalia refugee camp, a densely populated camp near Gaza City, demolished several apartment buildings, leaving craters of rubble in their place. [00:00:17] Footage from the attack show women and children being helped down half destroyed buildings as rescuers and residents dug through rubble to find survivors. Listen, I think it's extremely important that we say what we need to say. [00:00:33] And what we need to say at this point is women and children are not in the ranks of Hamas, okay? It is not okay for us to confuse that the bombing of apartment buildings and also refugees camp, in a place where it's already super dense, [00:00:50] talking about all of Gaza, 2.3 million people in a space. You know what, before I get into it deep, let's just play the video. Go to the video, Jordan. [00:02:18] >> This is not Hollywood, people. This is not something that, a Will Smith movie that's coming out next year. This is real life. I wanna bring Dina in early in this because I mean, she has a unique perspective on this. Also, I think we should talk about what and what is not really going on in Gaza. [00:02:36] Dina, what do you say? >> Yeah, you know, let me kind of first address the fact that, well, this is the first time, I'm a legal analyst, I talk about law and news quite a bit. I started on this show, actually, in the very beginning, the first month before it was actually picked up by TYT. [00:02:55] It was kind of in its trial period. And when we were gonna talk about these topics today, the producers asked me if I was okay talking about it, because of the fact that it is so difficult for people to talk about. And I was like, of course, for one, I feel like this is my job. The fact that we were able to talk about news events for [00:03:12] all these years and suddenly, can we talk about what's going on right now? To me, that just doesn't make any sense. And if you and I, who sit here in such privilege of safety, cannot talk about this, then what's the point of us? Even people on both sides of the aisle, if we can't have conversations right now, [00:03:32] if we can't get out of our boxes, if we can't see each other's point of view, then how on earth are people in Israel and in Gaza living through these kind of things ever gonna be able to talk? So I just want to preface it by saying, I think these kind of conversations [00:03:49] are not even maybe helpful, I think they're absolutely necessary. And I'm more than happy to talk about this. And I'm so glad that TYT and this show in particular, is willing to talk about it. And the death of the civilians, the images coming out of Gaza, [00:04:08] and the silence by our elected leaders, to me is the most painful part, actually. I'm Jordanian American, my father immigrated to this country. I'm Christian, that point of view is really not talked about. [00:04:24] There's a lot of anti-Arab in addition to anti-Muslim rhetoric out there. That constituency is really being ignored. And what makes me the most sad is the fact that people aren't just even willing to acknowledge that there's real humans here suffering. [00:04:42] I have not heard that at all. Just acknowledge the death, acknowledge the suffering. We see it, in this modern age, there is so much actual video footage. Not being willing to just put words to the images has really saddened me. [00:05:01] >> Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's important that you said that, because I think what's missing is the human component to all of this, right? There's this idea that we keep hearing people diminish the lives lost on the Gaza side of the wall because they keep saying, [00:05:17] those are numbers from Hamas Health Ministry. Hamas Health Ministry is not the only people quoting these death numbers, right? We see from different other avenues and also the account from people's cell phone and media coverage from other places, not on our media most of the time, [00:05:34] on mainstream media in America, we're not hearing about that. But we keep hearing about that deadly day on October 7th, as we should, because it's important to recognize that something happened. Something happened for sure, and people were murdered for real, that is factual. [00:05:50] But to otherize the people in Palestine, the people in Gaza, to the point where we can't see them beyond the Hamas flag, is what I think allows for America to be comfortable with the way this war is being covered. [00:06:06] And people are comfortable not talking about the fact that so many Palestinians are being bombed daily. There have been more bombs dropped on Palestine in the last three weeks than we dropped in a year in Afghanistan. And I say that every chance I get, because I need people to recognize, one, how [00:06:24] small the space Gaza is, and two, how big Afghanistan is and how dense Palestine is. You're gonna kill people, and now I'm talking about civilians are gonna be killed, it's inevitable. And then when you're talking about bringing ground troops in, [00:06:40] you're stretching it to a point where you are asking for civilian death to be exploded upon, no pun intended. And I think we're not being good allies to Israel or anybody else when we sit silent and allow for a government, [00:06:56] talking about Netanyahu's government, to carry on in this manner, where it seems that they're simply just trying to destroy all of Gaza. >> There was so much in there that you said that I agreed with. And I think the fact this otherism, that is the root of so [00:07:13] many of our problems in our country. We are very good at creating an otherism in so many groups and then justifying our actions based on that. I have never felt less seen in this country before as I do right now. [00:07:30] It is painful, and I'm certainly not the only one feeling this. And to your point, it's not about saying that Israeli civilian lives don't matter, because absolutely they do. Extremist policies on both sides is what created this issue, and [00:07:48] innocent civilians on both sides are paying the consequence. And we understand that, we've had our Trump, we don't all agree with Trump's policies, but we end up suffering the consequence. But this dehumanization and this inability to see Palestinian lives as actual lives. [00:08:06] The Jordanian king really, I thought, articulated that so well. And Arab leaders and Arab citizens are seeing that we truly do not care about Palestinian lives, and that, to me, is the biggest failing. [00:08:23] If we even spoke up more and said civilians, we see their suffering, we see their pain, we care about their lives, just a simple statement like that, and we don't see it. And that echoes very loudly. [00:08:39] >> Speaker 1: It absolutely does. And also, not only not seeing it, the fact that we can call out international crimes against Israel and not Palestine speaks to where our flaws are, and how we can't be taken serious. [00:08:55] Here's some more details from Al Jazeera. The Minister of Health in Gaza said more than 50 people were killed in the attack and 150 wounded. The Indonesian hospital where most of the victims were taken confirmed that more than 50 people were killed. Hamas military wing said on Wednesday that seven of its civilian captives have [00:09:15] been killed in the strikes, including three foreign passport holders, and that's, according to Al Jazeer. They went further and said, an Israeli army statement said that airstrikes on the Jabalia had killed Ibrahim Biari. Hamas didn't really agree with that. [00:09:31] I mean, here's my thing. I feel like when Israel talks about killing leadership at a camp, they're trying to justify the death of civilians. Let's do a split screen, if y'all don't mind, because I think it's important that we understand that. This, to me, is part of the otherization of people. [00:09:51] When you're talking about you bombed camp, a refugees camp, and the only person that got killed that you want to talk about in a public statement from the Israeli government was a leader of Hamas. Hamas is, of course, denying that this person was killed, but [00:10:07] that came out in that statement, and it rubbed me the wrong way, because so many other people, 50 other people were killed and 150 wounded, Dina. >> Speaker 2: Yeah, the Doctors Without Borders was saying how children were screaming for their parents in the hospital, severely wounded. [00:10:24] One child dies every ten minutes in Gaza. One child every ten minutes, during this episode how many children are gonna be killed? And not only we're silent, we are continuing to give military aid with no end game. So we are participating in this, and that is a moral failing. [00:10:41] To your point, are we ever going to be able to stand up? If Russia now does this to some other country, are we gonna be able to say no? We are completely losing our moral high ground by being willing to stand in silence, when you get electricities turned off, water turned off, [00:11:00] when you're bombing civilian apartments. We're losing the ability to ever tell any other countries that they can't do this. And I don't know if that's really, we are getting ourselves basically boxed in a corner. I don't think that's where we want to be, but that is where we are. [00:11:17] And it is that suffering of those children that people are seeing and we're being quiet on, and I mean, it's not gonna go anywhere good. >> Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean, not to make this about me, what about meism? [00:11:33] And I do want to say, though, I'm reminded of the time when black people in the south in the 50s and 60s were screaming to this country, what was happening to them. And it didn't matter until video caught Bloody Sunday on the Edmund Pettus Bridge. It seems like right now, [00:11:48] America wants to sit silent again as these atrocities happen. So far, at least 8796 people have been killed in Gaza since this war begun, including 3,648 children. 3,648 children, the number of child deaths is more than have [00:12:08] died in all conflicts around the world in each of the past four years. More than 1400 people died in Israel on October the 2nd, as I said, we just said, double that in Gaza have been killed. 3,648, and that's more than any other conflict in the past four years. [00:12:27] 3,648 is not a small number, that's larger than the number that caused America to launch two wars, one in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. And we're talking about children, so I think people should understand this is a horrible way for us to show up as the so-called leaders of the free world. [00:12:45] Meanwhile, per Reuters, we see that the first evacuees have actually left Gaza. A first group of civilian evacuees from Gaza crossed into Egypt under a Qatari-mediated deal on Wednesday, while Israeli forces bombed the Palestinian enclave from land, sea, [00:13:03] and air as they pressed their offensive against Hamas militants. This is what I'm saying, I think it's extremely celebratory, and we should be celebrating whenever anybody's free from captive. That's a fact, but we cannot just have that news. [00:13:21] We also have to remember that while people were being freed, people were being bombed, Dina. >> Speaker 2: I mean, absolutely, and really, this idea that this needs to be done to get rid of Hamas, I mean, let's be frank here. [00:13:36] The leaders are not in Gaza, right? I mean, we've seen them, we see them having meetings in Russia. We know they have compounds in Qatar. Why do you think Qatar is able to mediate a deal? We know the money isn't coming from Gaza, it's been coming from Iran. [00:13:53] And Netanyahu was letting it in because he wanted the extremists, because they didn't want a two state solution. That's been reported by The New York Times and the Israeli Times, that's not in dispute. So let's be frank, right? I mean, if you really want to get rid of Hamas, [00:14:10] which I think is an absolutely good thing to do, the Palestinians, even for the most part, saw them as an authoritarian regime. You have to get rid of the leadership, you've got to get rid of the money. But right now you're really killing the civilians. Are you also killing some low level fighters? [00:14:28] Yes, I'm sure. Are you creating more people who are angry at this situation and willing to fight back? Yes, I mean, that's the thing that bothers me is, I think President Biden is very smart. I think his senior advisors are very smart. [00:14:45] They understand this is not really a way to broker a peace. Israel and the Palestinians are going to be living side-by-side forever unless there's truly a genocide of the Palestinian people. Do they really think this is going to create peace? [00:15:01] There's no way anybody who really, truly understands that region thinks this is going to create peace. When you create this kind of barbaric violence against civilians, you create extremists. So for every low level Hamas fighter they've killed, they're probably created another hundred. [00:15:17] Why aren't you going against the leadership? Why are you killing the civilians? And yes, maybe you're killing some fighters along the way, but when you're doing it with so much hatred, you are going to get people who hate you in return. [00:15:33] And that's what we really need to stop here. We have to get back to the humanity, we've got to get back to some sort of civility, and we in the United States need to lead like that in order for that to happen at all. And if we're not willing to, it's not gonna happen. [00:15:49] >> Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's said perfectly, and I don't need to man-splain it beyond that point. That is absolutely factual. We can't assume, and I heard people say and I hear people say, what is Israel to do? And I think Israel is to recognize, and I think we should say, yes, they have a right to protect themselves. [00:16:07] But what's happening right now is this is beyond protecting yourself. This is about destroying an entire nation or space. Gaza is being bombed to the point of no recognition or nothing, no infrastructure. This is not about protecting yourself at this point, [00:16:22] this is about destroying people.