Not many may recall, but a few years ago the Fox network defended itself against a civil suit by successfully arguing that no reasonable viewer could ever believe that Fox News host Tucker Carlson was telling the truth, and that he regularly traffics in “non-literal commentary.” And now Carlson has essentially admitted as much himself, airing a segment where he asks viewers to quote, “imagine forcing yourself to tell lies all day about everything in ways that were so transparent and so outlandish that there is no way the people listening to you could possibly believe anything you said.”

In this clip from The Damage Report, Ana and John discuss this moment of projected clarity from Carlson, wondering whether he perhaps enjoys challenging his viewers to keep listening to him despite his “transparent and outlandish” lies about subjects ranging from the election and vaccine to Black Lives Matter and pretty much anything else. Ana suggests that Carlson truly feels contempt for his audience, and that comes through in his tone and language because he clearly talks to them as if they’re children.

John compares Tucker’s moment of truth to OJ Simpson writing a book titled, “If I Did It” and observes that even if Fox viewers can’t see through him, at least Tucker himself is smart enough to know that he’s a rank propagandist who lies for a living and should feel all the appropriate self-loathing that goes along with that kind of self-awareness.